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Boardgaming RTSs

James Fung
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IMHO, these are the essentials of a real-time strategy (RTS) game:

Managing your build. There are 3 main ways players spend their resources: reinvesting in their economy, building up their army, and investing in technology. A player who neglects their economy loses in the long-term because they will be outspent (think Germany and Japan unprepared for a long war in WW2). A player who neglects their army leaves themselves open to attack (e.g. it doesn't matter if you have more workers than your opponent if he can wipe out your mineral line easily). Technology may be bifurcated: on one side, there's the tech tree, which gives you access to units/buildings/abilities which may be better counters than the units/buildings/abilities you start off with; on the other, there's technology/abilities/spells/whatever that make units/buildings better, like a force multiplier. Making an effective build is the strategy portion of the game.

Micro. This is the real-time portion of the game. A human has only so much APM and attention to go around. Harassing attacks and drops, even if they lose more resources than they destroyed, may be worthwhile if they distract your opponent (I know I sometimes forget about my macro and end up supply blocked; or pull units from elsewhere on the battlefield; or invest resources into defenses). Good micro can also turn the tide in battles. People tell me that good players don't have to trade-off managing the battlefield and managing their macro, especially in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, where you can hotkey buildings and maintain your production cycle without looking away. But I'm a pretty novice player, so battles tend to suck up my attention.

Fog of war. Of course, there may be some RTS games that don't use fog of war, but I think fog of war complements the strategy portion of the game well. The reason is this: any particular strategy takes time and investment of resources to implement, and that means not spending time and resources on other things. The reason why cheeses work is that they are bizarre extreme strategies and, if the opponent has no effective counter, then the cheese wins outright or creates such an disadvantageous position that they would be hard to win from. However, if such cheesy plays were detected ahead of time, there generally is an easy counter.

Thus, though I think some gamers will mock me for this analogy, RTS games with fog of war are an elaborate, evolving game of rock-paper-scissors (RPS): each strategy has strengths and weaknesses. Maybe your initial build has a slight edge over your opponent's build, maybe not. But the first contact probably will not determine the victor, so each player continually adapts their strategy into one they think will gain them the upper hand, from countering enemy units to gaining an economic advantage. Good scouting gives players more information of what their opponent is capable of or intends to do, which is a definite edge in RPS.

Good scouting or reading of the opponent also for timing attacks: players often have momentary advantages which they can take advantage of, if they are aware of them. For example, when an opponent expands, they've generally sunk a lot of resources into the expansion. Defenses probably aren't in place at the expansion, and suddenly their army has to protect 2 locations. For the moment, the enemy is vulnerable, but soon their expansion will give their resource gathering a shot in the arm and they can build more units and defenses. Another timing attack may be when you have opened up a new unit, one your opponent doesn't know about. Until your opponent develops an effective counter, that unit gives you an advantage on the battlefield.

I think StarCraft: The Board Game tried its best to capture these aspects, though much of the fog of war was lost. I like how technologies that upgraded your units were kept hidden in your combat cards until revealed in combat, but that's about it as far as fog of war is concerned. Without the fog of war, each players' attacks and strategies are telegraphed somewhat in advance. This, I think, makes the game more about having a sound economy and winning the multiplayer metagame, which is typical of boardgames, rather than about picking/guessing the right direction to take your build to match your opponent.

The thing is I'm having a hard time thinking of a good boardgame mechanism that achieves the desired fog of war. For one thing, I think it's pretty important to keep hidden how many resources you're gathering (and spending). Collecting too few means that player is bulking up for an attack. A sudden jump in collection means they just expanded. These are important cues that you wouldn't want to telegraph to an opponent.

One mechanism I thought of was, in the context of a card game (since hidden information comes naturally to card games), for cards to be played hidden. When they are revealed, the player gains some bonus depending on how long it's been hidden. For example, a worker is assumed to have been working all that time and provides resources when revealed. An undetected unit production building could produce a free unit or combat bonus. Or one could just make a double-blind game and trust players to play by the honor system.

Of course, this brings up the question why try to copy RTS gameplay so closely? The main reason is, well, it's a proven idea that I feel hasn't penetrated far into boardgames. I've been playing a lot of Yomi recently, and while it has the whole RPS reading your opponent thing, you're mostly making short-term evaluations since the game situation can change within a couple card draws. RTS games ask you to play similar mindgames, but your build can only evolve so fast.
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Subscribe sub options Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:07 am
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Geoffrey Engelstein
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(warning - somewhat (OK, totally) self-promotional post follows )

Interestingly we had the same reaction as you to Starcraft the boardgame - It had some fun ideas, but we didn't think it really captured the feel of an RTS. This was the main impetus for our design of The Ares Project, which is due to be published by Z-Man Games hopefully in time for Origins. I would invite you to check it out.

This is how we dealt with the issues you raise:

1. Fog Of War: We did end up with a card deck for each player - as you note it is easier to maintain Fog of War with cards. In Ares, cards represent buildings, techs, or resources, and are played behind a screen. So the players have no idea what each other are building until an attack is launched. At that point screens are removed and players see what the other guy has. We have a 'rock-paper-scissors' feel to combat, so match-ups are important.

Also, some factions get to peek behind the screen during normal play (not battles) to give them an edge, but they need to toss a card to do it. And some buildings and techs will give players 'scouting points' which helps give them better match-ups in battle.

We also have a very abstracted map. Real Fog Of War with a map is tough to design smoothly without a referee or computer assist.

2. Tech Tree: We have technology upgrades, but no tech tree per se. The tech cards have no prerequisites for other techs. But most techs require 'power' which is a resource that can take some time to build up, so the better techs may have to wait until later in the game, since they take more power.

We looked at a tech tree but decided to not include it because of the card-based nature of the game. With only 50 cards there was too high a chance that the techs would come out in the wrong order. Plus, we like the fact that you can change strategies mid-stream if you want to, in reaction to your opponent's build, rather than get locked into a particular path.

3. Different Factions - You didn't actually mention this, but we consider this a key (and fun) feature of most RTS's, especially Starcraft. We include four very different factions, that not only have their own decks with different units and upgrades, but also have different rules for construction, techs, and other things. Each faction gets their own faction rulebook with particular rules for them, and it is a very different experience playing each one.

I hope you find that this fills at least part of the niche for an RTS boardgame. There are certainly other design ideas that can be mined, and I agree it is still ripe with possibilities.

Geoff
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  • Edited Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:47 am
  • Posted Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:46 am
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Tim Seitz
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Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die. But God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. 2 Sam 14:14
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Thus, though I think some gamers will mock me for this analogy, RTS games with fog of war are an elaborate, evolving game of rock-paper-scissors (RPS): each strategy has strengths and weaknesses.

Not at all. I am a high Diamond SC II player (pretty good for an old man!) and when I describe the game to non-gaming folks, I generally say it's a more complicated, slow-motion Rock, Paper, Scissors, where I can look behind your back and see what you are preparing to throw, and then counter it. There is also an execution element to RTS games where you have to be at a certain skill level to even attempt to throw something like "Scissors."

The S you can manage in a board game. And the RT you can get in a board game (Wok Star, Space Alert). However, I don't think you can effectively get both the RT and the S in a board game without a referee or a computer.
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  • Posted Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:02 am
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James Fung
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The Ares Project sounds a lot closer to the RTS experience in a boardgame format I was looking for. Thanks! That kind of self-promotion I don't mind.

Fog of war: I see you went with the hidden board, trust players to play fair method. I think this is the way to go, rather than trying to construct some sort of game mechanism to make sure players stay honest without giving too much intel away.

Tech tree: If I read you correctly, to put any particular tech into operation, you have to draw the corresponding card first. Therefore, unlike many RTS, where the building/unit/ability is available as long as prerequisites are satisfied, you might be prevented from using a counter just because you haven't drawn the card yet? To compensate, the tech tree is flattened (well, completely flattened as everything is playable if you have the power).

I feel this undermines the rock-paper-scissors aspect of the RTS somewhat: if a player's strategy is very extreme (infantry rush; rushing to powerful air unit), their build should have more weaknesses to exploit than someone who played a more middle-of-the-road build. But if someone beats their infantry rush with tanks, it should be harder for them to counter the tank threat than happening to draw the anti-tank technology. Correct me if I'm wrong since I don't know much about how The Ares Project plays.

engelstein wrote:
3. Different Factions - You didn't actually mention this, but we consider this a key (and fun) feature of most RTS's, especially Starcraft. We include four very different factions, that not only have their own decks with different units and upgrades, but also have different rules for construction, techs, and other things. Each faction gets their own faction rulebook with particular rules for them, and it is a very different experience playing each one.

I feel different factions (if they can be balanced) make RTSs deeper since a greater variety of strategies means more strategies you have to choose from and defend against, but people could still play Terran v. Terran and still experience the essential RTS aspects of the game (rushes versus long-term economy, which direction to push their tech tree, etc.). Having 4 factions means ten 1v1 matchups to master, so you get more mileage out of the system.
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  • Posted Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:45 am
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James Fung
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out4blood wrote:
The S you can manage in a board game. And the RT you can get in a board game (Wok Star, Space Alert). However, I don't think you can effectively get both the RT and the S in a board game without a referee or a computer.

What I was thinking was that, each turn, a player would have some number of micro/attention points to be spent. Units would spend micro to gain an advantage in battle (like high templars casting spells, reapers using speed to survive just a bit longer). Outside of battle, that attention point can be used to build more buildings, put more units into the queue, etc.
 
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  • Posted Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:51 am
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Geoffrey Engelstein
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fusag wrote:
Tech tree: If I read you correctly, to put any particular tech into operation, you have to draw the corresponding card first. Therefore, unlike many RTS, where the building/unit/ability is available as long as prerequisites are satisfied, you might be prevented from using a counter just because you haven't drawn the card yet? To compensate, the tech tree is flattened (well, completely flattened as everything is playable if you have the power).

I feel this undermines the rock-paper-scissors aspect of the RTS somewhat: if a player's strategy is very extreme (infantry rush; rushing to powerful air unit), their build should have more weaknesses to exploit than someone who played a more middle-of-the-road build. But if someone beats their infantry rush with tanks, it should be harder for them to counter the tank threat than happening to draw the anti-tank technology. Correct me if I'm wrong since I don't know much about how The Ares Project plays.


I understand what you're saying, but we tried to keep the luck lower by giving lots of options. Most cards are 'buildings' that can produce one of two types of units, depending on the orientation you play the card in. But once the building is down, that's the type of unit it produces - you can't rotate it.

There are four basic 'types' of units - Infantry, Armor, Air, and Building. Each unit is rated for how good it is against each of those types. For example (and I'm making up these values, because I can't remember my own game) Fighters may be 0-2-4-0 against infantry-armor-air-buildings and bombers may be 4-0-1-4. And both of those are on the same card, so you need to choose which 'side' you will use.

The Terran faction has 3 different infantry-producing buildings (so six different types of units), 2 armor, 3 air, and 3 building, so they can produce a broad variety of units that have a different mix of capabilities. Plus there are two copies of each building card in the deck. So typically you can find some card in your hand that will help you, even if it is not optimal.

Our 'techs' are mini-boosts that you can attach to a building. For example, this is an anti-tank missile card that will give the unit it is attached to +2 against armor.

There is a certain rhythm in the game that gives you time to try to change your forces to counteract what the opponent has built - either to kill his best units, or to build something that he can't hit.

Plus we threw in fun things for each faction to mess with this - for example, the Xenos (the bug faction) have 'evolve' cards that let you change the type of unit a building produces. So what was a strong infantry force in one battle may be a strong armor force the next.

We like RPS in our RTS and tried to keep that as a central design point. As you noted there is a certain amount of luck, but usually there isn't a situation where you need that one specific card to make or break you. Each player can start the game with two cards of their choice (chosen secretly) so you can set yourself up on a particular strategy, and reduces luck. But some luck is nice so you don't just have 'optimal' builds and have to think on your feet.

Geoff
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  • Posted Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:15 pm
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