iOS Review: Kingsburg: Serving the Crown

Nick Thomas

(Card)

Canada
Kitchener
Ontario

Thanks for the video.

Anyone know if an ipad version, "To Forge a Realm" expansion or online play are in the works?

Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:08 pm
Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:06 pm
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Chris D'Andrea

(lordunborn)

United States
Cheektowaga
New York

Card wrote:

Anyone know if an ipad version

This has kept me from buying it. x2 is unacceptable for a $5 app IMHO not when there are SO many other games that cost that much or less that are Universal.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:08 pm
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Superhawk

(Superhawk2300)

United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin

Been on the fence on this one for so long. Even after the developers finally answered my email from months ago I think I am still going to pass. Clunky design, key features to "unlock" and "ipad at 2x" sounds like a bad use of 5 bucks to me. If it was a buck or maybe even 2 dollars I might pull the trigger but until the "ipad at 2x" goes away it is hard to justify such a high price - and I usually am a pretty carefree app buyer.

Will someone please fix this! (and Cyclades as well, while they are at it?)

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:10 pm
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David Boeren

(dboeren)

United States
Marietta
Georgia

It's especially unfortunate that the 4p and 5p modes are locked *and* the AI isn't that great. Let me explain why...

I learned to play Kingsburg using this app, I've never seen in in person. You actually can do that, which is one positive point for the game, a number of other games I have are much harder to try to learn from just the app. However, with 3 players and a weak AI it's a very bland game. Talking with others, this seems to be one of those games that relies on the *players* to provide nearly all the tension - in the form of other people potentially taking the advisors that you wanted to influence. Fewer players = less contention for advisors = less tension. Then AI doesn't go out of its way to block you either, which means that you've got a game that feels pretty bland.

Even with the weak AI, it gets better with more players since that brings more contention, but this hint at a better game is locked away behind "achievements" that must be earned. Problem is, once you've gone out of your way to show the player a plain and uninteresting time, why do you expect he'll stick around to hopefully unlock a slightly better one?

And yes, the interface could be more streamlined and all that too, but before the interface can matter you've got to want to actually play the app.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:20 pm
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Jack

(senorcoo)

United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island

The big negative for me on this one is the fact that I have heard that the AI rots.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:07 pm
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Richard Skinner

(Likeless)

United Kingdom
Southend-on-Sea
Essex

senorcoo wrote:

The big negative for me on this one is the fact that I have heard that the AI rots.

Same here. I understand that it must be difficult to create good AIs for games that are designed to be interesting to a human player, but unfortunately it seems that AI strength is particularly valuable for these apps because users often want to use them at a time and pace that suits them.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:17 pm
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Keith Burgun

(keithburgun)

United States
Goldens Bridge
New York

Quote:

x2 is unacceptable for a $5 app IMHO

Yo. It's bad enough when video-game people buy into this RIDICULOUS arms-race consumerist propaganda, but don't *you* guys do it. 2x is a problem? Why, exactly? Because pixels are bad?

And OH NO 5 dollars! Do you remember, like 3 or so years ago before you had your iPad, and 5 dollars for a game was a pretty good deal? Well, 5 dollars for a game is STILL a pretty good deal.

People work hard on these things and when you complain about "5 dollars" you send the message that everyone, regardless of the quality of their content, must sell ALL their work for 99 cents to avoid people like you "complaining" that a game that took between 6 and 18 months to create costs more than a pack of gum.

-Keith

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:24 pm
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Andy Holt

(andyholt)

England
Rayleigh
Essex

This is not the cat you're looking for - some other cat maybe?

tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse

The AI could be better (but the different computer players seem to have different strategies).
The real problem is the plethora of bugs

This current version now displays properly on newer displays (such as iPad2) … and won't load on older ones;

It sometimes crashes during the pre-combat phase;

It doubly overpenalises the Farm in combat;

There are some oddities in the achievements;

I suspect that it brings out the Dragons too infrequently in year 5.

Just for a few.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:29 pm
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Levi Applegate

(LeviJay)

United States
Broken Arrow
Oklahoma

The AI is terrible. I don't think I've ever lost a game... and I've played a ton. I still enjoy to pick it up for a quick game, and try to beat my high score. If you look at it as a solo game with a couple of random advisors taken each round, then it is a lot more fun. However, I think I got it on sale for $1, and definitely wouldn't pay full price for the app that it is right now.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:33 pm
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Adam Brant

(GamerAtom)

Canada
Kanata
Ontario

keithburgun wrote:

2x is a problem? Why, exactly? Because pixels are bad?

no, 2x is bad because it looks like shit.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:34 pm
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Nick Thomas

(Card)

Canada
Kitchener
Ontario

LeviJay wrote:

...I think I got it on sale for $1, and definitely wouldn't pay full price for the app that it is right now.

Impressive, it was only on sale for less than 1 day; 15 months ago =)

http://appshopper.com/games/kinsburg-serving-the-crown

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:39 pm
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V L

(Neo42)

United States

Virginia

It was fun to unlock the other player counts. And for a while the game was a challenge and fun. It was worth $5. I had fun trying the various paths to victory.

However I did get bored of it after a while for the same reason that I think some people don't like the base board game anymore:

It is a much more interesting game with at least one expansion thrown in.

I think online async multiplayer would be fine. OR at least online synced multiplayer.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:41 pm
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Levi Applegate

(LeviJay)

United States
Broken Arrow
Oklahoma

keithburgun wrote:

Quote:

x2 is unacceptable for a $5 app IMHO

Yo. It's bad enough when video-game people buy into this RIDICULOUS arms-race consumerist propaganda, but don't *you* guys do it. 2x is a problem? Why, exactly? Because pixels are bad?

And OH NO 5 dollars! Do you remember, like 3 or so years ago before you had your iPad, and 5 dollars for a game was a pretty good deal? Well, 5 dollars for a game is STILL a pretty good deal.

People work hard on these things and when you complain about "5 dollars" you send the message that everyone, regardless of the quality of their content, must sell ALL their work for 99 cents to avoid people like you "complaining" that a game that took between 6 and 18 months to create costs more than a pack of gum.

-Keith

You're missing the point entirely.

Yes, $5 is cheaper than you could buy a board game for 3 years ago. However, this isn't 3 years ago, and now there are a lot of very good games that cost $5 or less. To say that just because someone worked on something for X months, it should be worth at least $X is silly. Quality is important. If we made similar products and sold them at the same price, and yours took 2 years to create, and mine took 1 month, yet mine was a higher quality, then whose would sell better?

There's something called opportunity cost. Not only should you look at what it costs, but look at what it costs you to choose one option over another. If it costs you the same as say the Neuroshima Hex app (as far as I remember, it does), then not only are you spending the $5, but you are also costing yourself the difference in quality between the two.

It seems what you are suggesting is that we just buy any board game app that comes out, regardless of price, just because people worked on it.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:49 pm
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Jay Levy

(jayntampa)

United States

Florida

I'm guessing it's a small developer, so it's taking a long time to implement everything they want. According to the app page, they will be adding an iPad version and the expansions. If they do, I'll pick it up then.

Edited Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:04 am
Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:50 pm
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Superhawk

(Superhawk2300)

United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin

FWIW here is the email I got from the developer a couple days ago.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi J,
sorry to be very late in replying to your email.
We made some try with Kingsburg Serving the Crown on iPad, but we saw that we have to do major changes in order to do something.
Unfortunately the owner of the license doesn't have hi-res images, needed by the new retina display. So we are studying a solution that can be good for players without changing all the original arts of Kingsburg.
Meanwhile, we fixed all the bugs that new generation devices had, so right now the app is absolutely playable on iPad and iPad2.
Hope you will be able to enjoy Kingsburg Serving the Crown or other iNigma products.
Regards.
--
Giacomo Santopietro
iNigma by Tiopi srl
All for Games

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:11 pm
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Keith Burgun

(keithburgun)

United States
Goldens Bridge
New York

Quote:

no, 2x is bad because it looks like shit.

I see. So, more pixels = looks better. Got it.

Your brain is wholly owned by EA.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:24 pm
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Nick Thomas

(Card)

Canada
Kitchener
Ontario

Not sure if that email sounds promising or not.

Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:36 pm
Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:24 pm
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Dr. Awkward

(p0pcult)

United States
Cincinnati
Ohio

keithburgun wrote:

Quote:

x2 is unacceptable for a $5 app IMHO

Yo. It's bad enough when video-game people buy into this RIDICULOUS arms-race consumerist propaganda, but don't *you* guys do it. 2x is a problem? Why, exactly? Because pixels are bad?

And OH NO 5 dollars! Do you remember, like 3 or so years ago before you had your iPad, and 5 dollars for a game was a pretty good deal? Well, 5 dollars for a game is STILL a pretty good deal.

People work hard on these things and when you complain about "5 dollars" you send the message that everyone, regardless of the quality of their content, must sell ALL their work for 99 cents to avoid people like you "complaining" that a game that took between 6 and 18 months to create costs more than a pack of gum.

-Keith

Keith: get with the market. Apple disrupted it. Markets change, and therefore so should producers for that market.

Do you support SOPA/PIPA/ACTA too?

Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:58 pm
Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:54 pm
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Kevin Sussman

(Mr_Bickman)

United States
Los Angeles
California

I picked it up when it first came out. The interface is the worst. I deleted it after a few frustrating plays. I had played the board game version a bunch of times, but having to toggle through all the permutations to see what your options are... just friggin' horrible design choice. I might take another look if they fix this for the iPad version.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:23 pm
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Richard Roberts

(Skiznillz)

United States
East Windsor
New Jersey

Superhawk2300 wrote:

FWIW here is the email I got from the developer a couple days ago.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi J,
sorry to be very late in replying to your email.
We made some try with Kingsburg Serving the Crown on iPad, but we saw that we have to do major changes in order to do something.
Unfortunately the owner of the license doesn't have hi-res images, needed by the new retina display. So we are studying a solution that can be good for players without changing all the original arts of Kingsburg.
Meanwhile, we fixed all the bugs that new generation devices had, so right now the app is absolutely playable on iPad and iPad2.
Hope you will be able to enjoy Kingsburg Serving the Crown or other iNigma products.
Regards.
--
Giacomo Santopietro
iNigma by Tiopi srl
All for Games

Last I checked, I couldn't get past the loading screen on the original iPad. Was another patch uploaded? I'd love the expansion and non-pass and play multiplayer.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:30 pm
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Cast Ll'tor

(Stu Skywalker)

Canada

Wow.

I'm surprised at these comments.

I bought this app when it first came out and I played it a ton.

Now that I have an iPad, and it has been upgraded to allow for playing on an iPad, I still think it's a fun game to play.

It's one of my most played apps, and well worth the money I spent on it.

I guess I need glasses to see the poor resolution better and I'm not that smart that I occasionally lose to the amazingly crappy AI.

At least I'm having fun while doing it, though.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:55 pm
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Adam Brant

(GamerAtom)

Canada
Kanata
Ontario

keithburgun wrote:

Quote:

no, 2x is bad because it looks like shit.

I see. So, more pixels = looks better. Got it.

Your brain is wholly owned by EA.

This has nothing to do with EA. As image sizes grow, it is a known fact that more pixels = looks better.

Ever watch an SD program on an HDTV that hasn't been upscaled?
Ever enlarge a 1 megapixel photo to anything more than 5x7 and compare it to a 10+ megapixel photo enlarged to the same size?

If you can't see that more pixels = looks better when viewed at larger sizes, then you really need your eyes checked.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:56 pm
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ackmondual

(ackmondual)

United States

Virginia

My sentiments exactly for getting it at discount. I got it for $3. If I had to pay $5 now, I'd rather just wait until TFaR gets implemented, as the discount and the promise of exp like TFaR and Goblin Valley were my draws back then.

lordunborn wrote:

Card wrote:

Anyone know if an ipad version

This has kept me from buying it. x2 is unacceptable for a $5 app IMHO not when there are SO many other games that cost that much or less that are Universal.

I can understand how playing Kingsburg on 2x would be bothersome for Ipad owners. It doesn't bother me, but that's b/c I don't own an Ipad and have gotten used to the constant screen switching. I've said it before and I'll say it again, saving $500 and not having to lug around something that won't fit in my pocket is worth the screen switching

However, are there really that many good universal apps at $5? T&E costs $6, Ghost Stories only works on Ipad and is $6. Carcassonne was a steal at $5, but IIRC, you had to take the chance that the promises of exp and Ipad support would come. Now that those promises have been fulfilled, it's been long since bumped up to $10.

If Kingsburg gets full Ipad support, they'll be at a rift, as they may either be no longer willing to charge just $5, and may need to charge $10 instead. And if they don't have separate apps, they're losing alot of buyers who have to pay $10 for something that's not as well polished as Carc (of which there have alr been numerous complaints about that price point, for both Iph/IpT and Ipad). If this company really isn't as big as the others, they probably can't charge any cheaper. $100 a year and making 2/3 of profits doesn't turn out to be alot in the end is all.

Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:08 pm
Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:06 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go

(CaptainCosmic)

United States
Reno
Nevada

My issue with Kingsburg isn't with the cost — the purchase was quite a while ago, and I don't even remember what I paid for it — or even with the AI, since I never really got far enough to care that much.

No, it's the interface that kills it for me. There's simply way too much screen-switching. The player is constantly switching screens, even for the simplest of results. I found myself lost and confused and bored ... and, eventually, wanting to play other games.

That's why I had high hopes for Kingsburg on the iPad: getting all of the relevant information onto one screen would likely be enough to make Kingsburg a fun experience. But, no, that's apparently too much to hope for, due to artwork and resolutions and tech stuff and phases of the moon or whatever. The reasons don't really matter. For Kingsburg (and this developer) to ever be relevant in the iOS world, the game needs to either go universal or be produced with a native iPad resolution.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:06 pm
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Joshua Gardner

(bullseyetm)

United States
West Henrietta
New York

andyholt wrote:

It doubly overpenalises the Farm in combat;

This. And it's inexcusable for a game that's over a year old. It makes one of the five tracks even more difficult to get through.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:09 pm
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Vytautas Kubilius

(Kubilius)

Lithuania
Vilnius

Stopped watching on "this is mostly singleplayer experience"... same reason why I quit playing "Caylus", which is an awesome game, but has the worst ever multiplayer implementation... how hard is it these days to include GameCenter and allow players to compete online ?

Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:18 pm
Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:17 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go

(CaptainCosmic)

United States
Reno
Nevada

ackmondual wrote:

However, are there really that many good universal apps at $5? T&E costs $6, Ghost Stories only works on Ipad and is $6. ...

And there's Elder Signs: Omens, and Ticket to Ride, and Neuroshima Hex, and Forbidden Island, and Ascension, and Bang, and Crimson: Steam Pirates, and Tigris & Euphrates, and Samurai, and Ra, and Puerto Rico, and Ingenious ... all off the top of my head. There's many more. Everything I listed is either iPad-only or else universal.

And none of them costs $10. The Kingsburg developers do not want to release a $10 iPad version — not unless they enjoy the sound of laughter and enjoy being pointed at. This stripped-down, weak-AI, no-multiplayer version they're selling now is simply not a $10 iOS game. It's not even close.

Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:30 pm
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Doug Herring

(Dougmysticeye)

United States
Pflugerville
Texas

I have had this app for some time and played it a bunch but now that it is upgraded for the iPad it crashes at the load screen on my iPad.

It was good when it came out but there is better stuff out now that others have mentioned.

Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:42 am
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Superhawk

(Superhawk2300)

United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin

ackmondual wrote:

My sentiments exactly for getting it at discount. I got it for $3. If I had to pay $5 now, I'd rather just wait until TFaR gets implemented, as the discount and the promise of exp like TFaR and Goblin Valley were my draws back then.

lordunborn wrote:

Card wrote:

Anyone know if an ipad version

This has kept me from buying it. x2 is unacceptable for a $5 app IMHO not when there are SO many other games that cost that much or less that are Universal.

I can understand how playing Kingsburg on 2x would be bothersome for Ipad owners. It doesn't bother me, but that's b/c I don't own an Ipad and have gotten used to the constant screen switching. I've said it before and I'll say it again, saving $500 and not having to lug around something that won't fit in my pocket is worth the screen switching

However, are there really that many good universal apps at $5? T&E costs $6, Ghost Stories only works on Ipad and is $6. Carcassonne was a steal at $5, but IIRC, you had to take the chance that the promises of exp and Ipad support would come. Now that those promises have been fulfilled, it's been long since bumped up to $10.

If Kingsburg gets full Ipad support, they'll be at a rift, as they may either be no longer willing to charge just $5, and may need to charge $10 instead. And if they don't have separate apps, they're losing alot of buyers who have to pay $10 for something that's not as well polished as Carc (of which there have alr been numerous complaints about that price point, for both Iph/IpT and Ipad). If this company really isn't as big as the others, they probably can't charge any cheaper. $100 a year and making 2/3 of profits doesn't turn out to be alot in the end is all.

Thanks for posting this. Maybe your post and my reply will help clear this up for those that don't get the stance that the problems this app has are enough to make it a non purchase. ...

I'd actually pay more than five bucks for a good looking, well designed, decent ai version of kingsburg. Maybe even 10 bucks.

Here that app debs? I have a crisp 10 dollar bill just waiting for well done board game apps, but only well done board game apps. I bet there are many other folks with 10 bucks too.

Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:51 am
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Shane Gelven

(gelvo)

Australia
Morphett Vale
South Australia

Thank you for posting this video, can you tell me the name of that background track as I'd love to get some more of that

Cheers cool

Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:50 am
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Michele Esmanech

(Ikim)

Italy
Milano
Milano

The game is nice, and the graphics (original from the BoardGame) are nice... but the AI is so dumb, stupid and easy to beat, I dropped it and cancelled it from my device.

When I played it, I NEVER lost (maybe once, when I played my first game, and I didn't even read the rules... even then, I arrived 2nd, on a 3 player game... and I didn't even know what I was doing and what was happening).
The last few times I played, I just played against my highest score, since I usually reach 40+, and the second place AI has no more than 20 points.

Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:12 am
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Frank Schulte-Kulkmann

(kulkmann)

Germany
Essen

Superhawk2300 wrote:

Unfortunately the owner of the license doesn't have hi-res images, needed by the new retina display. So we are studying a solution that can be good for players without changing all the original arts of Kingsburg.
--
Giacomo Santopietro
iNigma by Tiopi srl
All for Games

Ooops!

Is it just me or does this sound like a cheap excuse for not getting on with a decent Ipad version of the game?

Like many others here, I would love to get a renewed version of the game which fits the bigger Ipad display, and it would certainly be advisable for the programmers to include the expansion as well. However, one of the biggest faults of iNigma seems that they are not really heeding the advice or comments given by players who have bought their Kingsburg-app. Other programmers are quite active here at BGG (see the Caylus app), but iNigma has made high promises long ago without acting on them...

And finally: I think that a decision to change the graphics of the game (because they are lacking high-res images) would be the death blow for this unlucky app...

Cheers

Frank

Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:01 pm
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nyn -

(thenyn)

Thanks for posting this review. I can see clearly that I have no desire to purchase this app despite how much I enjoy the boardgame.

It's interesting to read the comments here. It's true that multiplayer tension is a key element of gameplay on the board game, but this can be simulated with a good AI. That said, it was the interface that decided it for me (since I haven't played the app I am no judge for how good or bad the AI actually is). It's important to be able to easily weigh the advisor choices against each other while still considering what resources are currently in your stock and which building(s) you're hoping to put up in the next round or two.

Pretty pictures are a dime a dozen. While my hat goes off to all the great artists out there, I honestly think the greater challenge is in designing the interface. How one applies great art to an intuitive and simple interface is what makes or breaks a game for me. If the GUI is clumsy, the gameplay suffers.

I often suspect that part of the problem with trying to roll these boardgames out to iOS apps is in the desire to stay true to the original game design. If original designers were working off an iPhone or iPad, they would not have made the decisions they did. You see this when a board game is converted to a card game (example: Puerto Rico and San Juan). The medium needs to be allowed to influence the design while still carrying the "feel" across.

From what I can see in this video, the app designers failed to accomplish this. I can't blame them. It is a rare designer who successfully converts a great boardgame into even a mediocre iOS or video game.

Thanks again for sharing.

Posted Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:49 pm
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ackmondual

(ackmondual)

United States

Virginia

Hmm, I'm thinking with the iOS version, they could also offer a "central" mat that shows where everyone has built at a glance. This would work for me at least since I've memorized where all the buildings are on the base game mat, so you wouldn't need the details of each building (cost, text description, etc.)

Perhaps the same "at a glance" concept applied to the advisors... no text nor pictures (or so...), just colored dice and the advisor #.

Posted Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:02 am
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