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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Back in the day, you used to go to a big convention and there would be nothing but an ocean of role playing. Yeah, there'd be some people in a corner hacking their way through Advanced Civilization or spread out all over the floor in some historical miniatures naval battle. But the meat of the convention was role playing.
Then, Magic came. Suddenly, there were two big gaming areas - collectible trading card games and role playing. Fights ensued regarding who would get more floor space, who would get more billing, better or bigger booths. But those wars now seem over. The ccg frenzy has died back and role play is a strong, but settled force.
Are we at the dawn of the board game age now? Every year at the major conventions, I am seeing more and more retailers specializing in board games. Old stalwarts converting. Greater and greater floor space converted to serve board games. Sure, collectible minis made it seem like miniatures games would be big, but real miniatures games are too labor intensive as a hobby to ever challenge the big dogs.
Is board gaming coming into it's own?
What will come after board games?
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Matthan Heiselt
United States
Suffolk
Virginia
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I hear video games are starting to catch on.
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Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
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Back in the day, you used to go to a big convention and there would be nothing but an ocean of pizza places. Yeah, there'd be some people in a corner hacking their way through gyros or spread out all over the floor in some titanic barbecue pit. But the meat of the convention was pepperoni.
Then, Subway Sandwiches came. Suddenly, there were two big food franchise areas - sandwiches and pizzas. Fights ensued regarding who would get more floor space, who would get more billing, better or bigger booths. But those wars now seem over. The sandwich frenzy has died back and pizza place is a strong, but settled force.
Are we at the dawn of the gyro age now? Every year at the major conventions, I am seeing more and more retailers specializing in ethnic foods. Old stalwarts converting. Greater and greater floor space converted to serve shwarma. Sure, Wolfgang Puck made it seem like French would be big, but real French foods are too labor intensive as a cuisine to ever challenge the big dogs.
Is Greek restauranteuring coming into it's own?
What will come after gyros?
Every industry cycles and changes, and conventions have sway and motion as more and more people get into a given field. With thousands of new enterpreneurs per year, ALL conventions for all specialized businesses seem to be growing.
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John W
United States
Sacramento
California
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Yeah, it seems odd to hypothesize about future entertainment options without even mentioning video/computer games.
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Rich Hussein Shipley
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
By some definitions, gaming is my religion
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Before RPGs hit big, conventions used to be just boardgames and miniatures. Things just cycle around. There are also dedicated conventions for miniatures and other games that you may not know about.
What changes is what certain conventions focus on. The ones that are run by the gaming industry with flit here and there depending on what is bring in the most cash at the moment. Ones run by gamers will stay more consistent.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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matthan wrote: I hear video games are starting to catch on.
You know what one of the hottest games of the year was?
Settlers of Catan for the Xbox Live.
I'm not saying that board games are going to eclipse video, role play, collectible, or anything. Just that it wasn't that long ago you'd have had to beg for table space and players to get a game of Arkham Horror in at a major con... now? I saw 32 people play at Rogue Judges on Saturday night at Gencon - they had to turn people away.
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Firestone
United States
Northern
Colorado
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cosine wrote:
What will come after board games?
Cat juggling.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Geosphere wrote: Every industry cycles and changes, and conventions have sway and motion as more and more people get into a given field. With thousands of new enterpreneurs per year, ALL conventions for all specialized businesses seem to be growing.
Yeah, the conventions as a whole have grown... but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the relative footprint of board games at these conventions. It seems to be growing in comparison to other games.
Frankly, the advent of collectible mini games has had a big growth in mini games in general as well. Perhaps that's the next big thing? Only... it seems to have run most of it's course. Sure, there is still a lot of interest, but is there hot new interest? Is Hasbro acquiring Wizkids... or Avalon Hill?
It's a thread about speculating. So speculate.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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reapersaurus wrote: Yeah, it seems odd to hypothesize about future entertainment options without even mentioning video/computer games.
Fire it up then.
Are we all going to end up in Counterstrike against our friends and neighbors in 20 years... or be playing ASL online against our friends and neighbors in 20 years?
Board games have real rules, real challenges, and they offer opportunities for skill based competition that's based on flexing your grey matter and not your twitch reflex. Seems to me lots of people would be interested in that.
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James Perry
United States
Oakland
Tennessee
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Scott Firestone IV wrote: cosine wrote:
What will come after board games?
Cat juggling.
Please let that be true!
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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rshipley wrote: Before RPGs hit big, conventions used to be just boardgames and miniatures. Things just cycle around. There are also dedicated conventions for miniatures and other games that you may not know about.
What changes is what certain conventions focus on. The ones that are run by the gaming industry with flit here and there depending on what is bring in the most cash at the moment. Ones run by gamers will stay more consistent.
Is there a "before RPGs"? I mean, you're talking about before 1976 there. There was no Gencon, no Origins, no WBC, no... no game conventions as we know them today.
The purpose for creating the first gaming conventions, as far as I know, was to get together with groups of people for role playing. This year was 40 years of Gencon... so you're talking about pre-1967 then? Or just 1967 to 1979?
What gaming conventions am I missing? Do they hold a candle to the attendance of Gencon or Origins? If you are talking about Essen thats even more board games.
And isn't the focus of game convention a reflection of the state of the industry? If CCGs are hot, you'll find more floor space for CCGs, more dealers, more events... and yet, that seems to be shrinking.
Yeah, yeah, everything in the universe moves in cycles. Only it doesn't. Pre 1995 there were no CCGs. Now, a force. Today, we don't really pay attention to video games at our gaming conventions. Are things going to stay that way? Are we going to have 5 years of board game growth? Or is everything at a temporary equlibirium?
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Richard Pakpreo
United States
Quincy
Massachusetts
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Scott Firestone IV wrote: cosine wrote:
What will come after board games?
Cat juggling.
I would have expected cat box grinders from you.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Scott Firestone IV wrote: cosine wrote:
What will come after board games?
Cat juggling.
When people are putting pictures on the future CatJugglingGeek.com, what will they put instead of the cat in the box pictures they put up here?
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Steve Werth
United States
Los Angeles
California
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If by future you mean past, then yes.
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Nigel Pyne
United Kingdom
Southampton
Hampshire
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Whatever's new creates a wave. Boardgames aren't new - so no wave. But I think you'll see more of an even representation between all areas. Each type of gaming has something going for it and will continue. It'll just even out...until the next new thing comes along. Mediocrity...ahhh!
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Steve Wood
United States
Stamford
Connecticut
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I'm surprised at the snippy nature of some of these replies.
In general, I agree with you. While I wouldn't call board games "the wave of the future", as they've been around for quite a long time... I will entertain the idea that board games are currently experiencing a Golden Age. I also think that your timeline of RPG > Magic > Board Games is valid, as I've experienced the same thing.
For those who replied sarcastically regarding video games... they are not "the wave of the future". Video gaming has had it's cycles and it's Golden Age already. People who play video games will continue to play them, but huge chunks of the population are not suddenly "discovering" them.
Nothing is really changing with respect to video gaming. It's not a shocking statement to say "more and more people are playing video games". It's obvious and typical. The industry is here and it does what it does. The Wii is probably the only thing in recent history that has had any impact on changing the gaming population.
Board games, however, are quite a different story. More and more people are discovering them! The average person knows about PlayStations and XBoxs, but they don't know about Puerto Rico or Caylus. But they will.
I started a board gaming Meetup group in January and am quite shocked to have 67 members seven months later. Many of our members had no idea that these types of games existed, but now they return and ask where to buy them.
Two things appear to be fueling this wave:
1) The ease of learning about board gaming. Thanks to the media, which is always years behind the core interest group. And obviously thanks to the Interweb. "How can I find people that play board games?" Hello Meetup.
2) The social backlash of technology rejection. Kids spend too much time in front of the TV. Families sit at computers all day instead of interacting, etc. "What can we do together that's still fun, engaging, and challenging to a modern mind?"
I think many of the people who replied a bit sarcastically made the jump to conclusion that you implied "to the exclusion of other activities" in your "wave of the future" statement. Video games aren't going anywhere new, but board games appear to have a bright new future ahead of them.
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Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
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cosine wrote: You know what one of the hottest games of the year was?
Settlers of Catan for the Xbox Live.
Can you quote any source putting that in the top videogames of the past year?
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Rich Hussein Shipley
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
By some definitions, gaming is my religion
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cosine wrote: Is there a "before RPGs"? I mean, you're talking about before 1976 there. There was no Gencon, no Origins, no WBC, no... no game conventions as we know them today.
Both Origins and GenCon pre-date popular RPG playing. They were started for playing board wargames and miniatures.
Quote: What gaming conventions am I missing? Do they hold a candle to the attendance of Gencon or Origins? If you are talking about Essen thats even more board games.
For miniatures, there are the Games Workshop Games Days and the HMGS conventions for historicals. It also sounds like WBC is about the same size as GenCon for boardgames (Origins was pretty bad last time I went). These other cons don't compare with Origins or GenCon for overall size, but they hold their own for what they offer.
Quote: And isn't the focus of game convention a reflection of the state of the industry? If CCGs are hot, you'll find more floor space for CCGs, more dealers, more events... and yet, that seems to be shrinking.
Industry conventions folow the industry. Game conventions don't have to be about where the money is. Diplomacy players keep having cons that aren't affected by the industry one bit. People play long OOP and small run titles at WBC every year.
Quote: Yeah, yeah, everything in the universe moves in cycles. Only it doesn't. Pre 1995 there were no CCGs. Now, a force. Today, we don't really pay attention to video games at our gaming conventions.
They have their own conventions. There have been attempts to add video gaming to various "paper" gaming conventions, but they don't seem to stick.
Quote: Are things going to stay that way? Are we going to have 5 years of board game growth? Or is everything at a temporary equlibirium?
I have no idea. I'll just attend the events that offer what I want.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Skadar wrote: I think many of the people who replied a bit sarcastically made the jump to conclusion that you implied "to the exclusion of other activities" in your "wave of the future" statement. Video games aren't going anywhere new, but board games appear to have a bright new future ahead of them.
Right on.
The slice of the pie that goes to board games seems to be growing. Yeah, the pie is growing too, but board games seem to be getting more and more of it.
If bgg had stock, I think now would be the time to invest.
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Kevin Sussman
United States
Los Angeles
California
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Regai wrote: Scott Firestone IV wrote: cosine wrote:
What will come after board games?
Cat juggling. Please let that be true!
I'll wait for the Xbox Live version.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Geosphere wrote: Can you quote any source putting that in the top videogames of the past year?
It's not sales, friend. It's buzz. Just check around. You'll find it all over - review sites, splash sites, people talking about it.
And it's just an example. An effort to try to get you out of the dull, everyday answer of "well, we'll all be playing video games in the end..."
I've had video games all my life. I love them and still play them. Yet... I'm still playing board games, too.
I'm interested in hearing more people's thoughts and speculations about board games position in the big mix. If all you have to say is "it's video games, dude" and move on... then move on.
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Sterling Babcock
United States
Colorado
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Scott Firestone IV wrote: cosine wrote:
What will come after board games?
Cat juggling.
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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rshipley wrote: For miniatures, there are the Games Workshop Games Days and the HMGS conventions for historicals.
I've been to Games Days. It got nothing on Gencon. It got nothing on just the board game room at Gencon. Heck, I've seen more people at the art show on some days at Gencon than I seen at some Games Days in the US.
Quote: Industry conventions follow the industry.
Yeah. An industry convention like Gencon seems to be going in the direction of board games. That's my point.
Quote: Diplomacy players keep having cons that aren't affected by the industry one bit. People play long OOP and small run titles at WBC every year.
And this is relevant how? I'm not suggesting that old games are dying out... if anything, they seem to be getting new life.
Riddle me this Batman... this year at the Gencon auction, Castle of the Vampire Queen went at $1800. No board game came close. When, if ever, will a board game beat out the original role playing module?
Quote: They have their own conventions. There have been attempts to add video gaming to various "paper" gaming conventions, but they don't seem to stick.
And why is that? And what implications does this reason have for the gaming convention at large?
E3 gone done collapsed. These days, big players in video hold their own "conventions" where they can hype their own junk and ignore the industry with a marketing blitz. Is that really a "convention"?
Quote: I have no idea. I'll just attend the events that offer what I want.
Consult the darkest pages of the Prognosticon! Gamer cultists are waiting to hear you rhythmically chant an answer.
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Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
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cosine wrote: It's buzz. Just check around. You'll find it all over - review sites, splash sites, people talking about it.
ummmm. OK. If you say so.
See, you're on the lookout for game news.
I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere except this site, and even then only slightly.
Now talk about Gears Of War, Halo3, Guitar Hero... I've seen TV commercials, I've seen standups in video game stores, I've read tons of articles.
Catan? Never saw word one except on BGG.
Quick poll of 4 guys who came into my office - none of them ever heard of it.
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Ben Foy
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
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cosine wrote:
Is Hasbro acquiring Wizkids... or Avalon Hill?
You are joking, right?
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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:52 pm
