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Harald Korneliussen
Norway
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I know this may be a bit off topic, but I figured this was the best place to ask.
Many years ago, I played role-playing games. I enjoyed it a lot, and it got me many good friends of a compatible temper and aligning interests. About ... ten (oh my God, I'm old) years ago, parts of the group lost interest (or decided they didn't want to be seen as geeks anymore), and the rest kind of didn't get much playing done, because we disagreed on style - my best friend liked White Wolf games, and viewed our old staples (D&D in various incarnations) as unsophisticated, and thought LARPing sounded kind of cool, while I saw Vampire as a load of pretentious angst wrapped up in snobbery, and loved my polyhedrals. More or less.
Now, through a combination of happy, trivial and unhappy circumstances, I may have an opportunity to start role-playing again, in addition to my weekly dose of boardgames. I'm looking for a game to try. Unfortunately, I'm rather picky: I would like a system that
1. Is fantasy-oriented, or at least has it as an option
2. Is not overly simulation-like, particularly not in combat
3. Is not only a theatre impro exercise - I like boardgames, applying my mind to optimizing odds, solving problems and "building up my table", and I feel it has an important place in RPGs as well
4. Is somewhat balanced. Seeing how carefully most eurogames are balanced, I sadly realize how arbitrary our old D&D rules were (I remember a note in a late rulebook I had about capping fireball damage at 20d6, "otherwise, any wizard above 30th level could instantly kill any other wizard regardless of level or saving throws" - and was it really sensible that invisibility was second level, while "statue" was ninth?). I could take a system I know and try to re-balance it, but that would take a lot of time, and it would have to mean I would be the GM, something I hope to avoid.
Finally... 5. I am a big fan of open source, and I think it's cool that WotC have released many rules under open licences. It would be awesome if The RPG I'm Looking For(tm) exists as an open project on the net. What would be non-awesome was if the ideal system was heavily commercialized, with collectible miniatures etc. I already have one expensive hobby.
Are there any kind RPG veterans, well wandered in the RPG world as it looks today, who can give me any hints?
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James Ludlow
United States
Saint Louis Park
Minnesota
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vintermann wrote:
4. Is somewhat balanced. Seeing how carefully most eurogames are balanced, I sadly realize how arbitrary our old D&D rules were (I remember a note in a late rulebook I had about capping fireball damage at 20d6, "otherwise, any wizard above 30th level could instantly kill any other wizard regardless of level or saving throws" - and was it really sensible that invisibility was second level, while "statue" was ninth?). I could take a system I know and try to re-balance it, but that would take a lot of time, and it would have to mean I would be the GM, something I hope to avoid.
D&D with level 30 characters is just silly. It's not really designed to handle that. At lower levels, I find it quite enjoyable.
Quote: Finally... 5. I am a big fan of open source, and I think it's cool that WotC have released many rules under open licences. It would be awesome if The RPG I'm Looking For(tm) exists as an open project on the net. What would be non-awesome was if the ideal system was heavily commercialized, with collectible miniatures etc. I already have one expensive hobby.
Pathfinder RPG is D&D 3.5+. As in, it's heavily based on 3.5, but streamlined and balanced. It was made by guys who love 3.5, have little interest in switching to 4.0, and happen to be pretty damn good writers to boot.
The PDF of the beta rules is free. Don't let the "free" or "beta" parts fool you though. This is a real RPG, and the book itself is full-color and professional.
I'm still in the reading stages of this, but at least a portion of my regular D&D group has become interested enough to play this when our current queue of campaigns ends.
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Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
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Personally I don't believe in 'balance' in a RPG, balance is created by the GM and the situation. My one concession to balance is that I do prefer point-buy games rather than those with any randomness at all in character creation or development. But in my experience & opinion, some of the better RPGs out there now would be
Hollow Earth Expedition - pulp-oriented exploration of... well, the Hollow Earth. Utterly gorgeous rule book, pretty simple rules, but plenty of factors to play with.
Cartoon Action Hour (Season 2) - designed to emulate the '80s TV action cartoons like He-Man and the like, but nonetheless good solid generic rules to create your own setting with. I don't really know the second edition (Season 2), but the first was good, and I trust the writer to do a good job improving it!
Unisystem - not a single game, but any of Armageddon, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Buffy or Angel share a good, solid, simple system that's quick & easily learned. Buffy and Angel actually use Cinematic Unisystem, an even lighter & quicker version of the system, but with a novel idea of balance - less powerful characters have more 'luck points' to spend. Unfortunately, both are out of production now, but shouldn't be too hard to find. AFMBE is the premiere zombie RPG out there, there are a dozen or more supplements ranging from a D&D emulation (Dungeons & Zombies) to zombie midget wrestling...
New World of Darkness - while not traditional fantasy, the Vampire, Werewolf, etc sourcebooks all have a fantasy element, or you can just use the basic system (I was going to use it for Stargate SG-1, since the 'official' SG-1 uses a complex D20 variant). The new WoD is a good system so long as you accept an element of abstraction (it combines the to-hit roll with the damage roll). It has by far the best Armoury book of any RPG I've seen...
Basic Role Playing - if you like things a bit 'crunchier', a new edition of BRP has just been released. Simple system - roll under your %are score in anything to succeed...
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Drew Spencer
United States
Tucson
Arizona
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I've been super impressed by Fast Lane. It's the RPG that uses a roulette wheel and table to adjudicate challenges. Your chips and your choices on where to put them will make you more or less likely to succeed, and when you do, you get to narrate what happens! Chips won can be used to up your stats or added to increase your odds on future challenges.
One thing I like about it is that challenges include the whole situation. So, rather than rolling to see if you hit, you run the wheel to determine the outcome of the entire fight with the winner describing it in as much detail as they choose. Players can even split up and decide entirely different challenges on the same run of the wheel, which allows for a much broader range of player options.
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Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
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banyan wrote: So, rather than rolling to see if you hit, you run the wheel to determine the outcome of the entire fight with the winner describing it in as much detail as they choose.
HeroQuest (the RPG, not the boardgame...) does this too.
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Lindsay Thomas
United Kingdom
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Why don't you just play with your old D & D rulebooks, Harald?
It's not the game system, but the imagination that goes into it that counts.
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Chris C.
United States
Goshen
Indiana
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Rifts is one of the best and well thought out gaming systems. It is very heavy on stats and has a ton of sourcebooks.
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dave boulton
United Kingdom
etchingham
E. Sussex
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hmm
ive been roleplaying for 26 years (EEP!) and have played and run a lot of games in my time, i never got into either the whole angsty white wolf (though flirted with the ghostly one to play the book about teh holocaust) set and really dislike the whole d20 ogl thing too but here are a few things i like and am involved with at the moment
savage worlds, this kinda feels like a boardgame pretending to be a role game at times but its pretty slick, fast to play and simplistic, also there are many different world books to try and all you need to run a pretty good campaign is the base rulebook, a pack of cards, dice and some pokerchips or glass beady things and a world book, theer are many to choose from and run the gamalt from pirates, high fantasy, a bit grubby low fantasy, occulty american involvment in vietnam, gothicy witch hunting, depressing gothichy sci fi, supers, occulty wild west and probably many others as i have not kept up with the publishers web isght (pinnacle games www.peginc.com from memory) also its a very easy to bolt your own world onto as the rules set is generic, also its nice for first timers to run and play and still holds enough meat for veterens (who though, may at first be a little frustrated with the combat system)
it does though, seem to prioritise combat as it grew from a miniatures game (the great rail wars) but ifn you like the idea of a few heroes standing off and even haveing a fair chance of winning against a dozen or so bandits at what is essentially 1st level you may like this
i personally run warhammer fantasy roleplay 2nd edition and enjoy that alot but it is not really a small undertakeing in terms of books (there are dozens of the things, true not all essential but you will probably end up wanting them :S) there is also a rolegame of warhammer 40k that uses a very slightly modified version of fantasy warhammer rules. i have this and ran it a couple of times but i have to say i dont actually like it, it is a bit rsetrictive in what you can do and i didn't like the character creation which seemed very scripted to me and far from the choas of its fantasy parent, that said though ifn you or your players are familiar with eitehr universe you might find it worth a look
what i am also running at the moment is grey malkin designs desolation ( www.greymalkindesigns.com) which uses the same system as the earlier mentioned hollow earth expedition game. it is depressing(ish, you can make it more optimistic ifn you wnat, but me i like doom and gloom) post apocalyptic fantasy and althoguh i've not done alot with it yet am pleasently surprised by the system and the world
as for depressing i also play a game called hot war set in a REALLY depressing distopian post apocalyptic 60's london, couldnt tell you who print it from memory but ifn you like story telling rather than strict rules and lots of dice rolling you might give it a shot, well hope that helps
sorry i ran on a bit there
any more questions please feel free to drop me a geekmail
WRE
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Cpl. Sadler 8-0
United States
Rockville
Maryland
Hey, MMP! I want Marines, not Finns! RISING SUN NOW! HAAKAKAKAKA PALAAAAAAA LATER!
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4th edition D&D meets all of your requirements. The system is more of a game than ever before; rather than a life simulator. It does not cost that much to play, unless you can't stand not having an exact miniature for every thing on the table.
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Gerry Smit
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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I'd second DnD 3.5, especially Pathfinder. As mentioned above, it's free, yet a full, great game.
OR: Hero Systems, including Fantasy Hero. At least the '80s versions were great. I played in a Time Travel game using Hero (aka Champion without "Supers") and was ALWAYS impressed by how sensible the 3d6 Bell Curve worked for handling most challenges. And that should solve your "balance/playability" concerns.
How well Fantasy Hero works I cannto say speciffically, but given how well Hero works, I'd expect "pretty good".
You want ?different? Try Toon or Timemaster.
Gerry
ps. A thumbs up to "just pull out your old DnD manuals". ghs2
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Ivo van der Horst
Netherlands
Capelle aan den IJssel
Zuid-Holland
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You're familiar with the rules of D&D, which makes that an obvious choice if you're going to pick up roleplaying again. I've found D&D very fun for a fantasy setting, but rather hard to adapt to a non-fantasy (in my case: spaceflight sci-fi) setting.
If you don't mind switching game system I can recommend GURPS, the Generic Universal RolePlaying System. The basic rules are not that hard too learn but the rules can be as extensive as you like. The system is constructed to be generic and universal, which means you can use it for any setting, and the system can be the same when changing settings. I like to construct my own roleplaying settings, but there's a whole range of additional books available for specific rules and ideas. You only need the core book to play. To try it out there's even a free, simplified version of the core rules called GURPS Lite; you should be able to find it somewhere around SJGames' site.
Good luck in getting back to roleplaying, may you have fun! 
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Kent Reuber
United States
San Mateo
California
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vintermann wrote: I am a big fan of open source, and I think it's cool that WotC have released many rules under open licences. It would be awesome if The RPG I'm Looking For(tm) exists as an open project on the net. What would be non-awesome was if the ideal system was heavily commercialized, with collectible miniatures etc. I already have one expensive hobby.
Are there any kind RPG veterans, well wandered in the RPG world as it looks today, who can give me any hints?
I'd take a look at Fudge, which is open source. There are pre-printed versions that you can buy, but it's a free download. The FATE RPG is derived from Fudge which might be another option for you. Steffan O'Sullivan, the creator of Fudge, is a BGG member: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/user/sos1
http://fudgerpg.com/
http://faterpg.com/
Free RPG Compendium: http://www.homebrew.net/games/
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Robert Sweeney
United States
Clinton Township
Michigan
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I looked around and finally decided on the best I could find - AD&D. Yep, all these new fangled games have lost sight of the fun of playing (instead of the countless hours needed to create a PC.)! There are plenty of the books to be found on eBay, the general system is known to very many players, I (as DM) have tons of already researched and manufactured materials AND as the newbies have not even seen (yet alone heard of) AD&D - I have the only source of knowledge about the game. Which brings back the "magic of playing" I had in my youth. Ah, the look on their little 20 year old faces when the meet a G Cube... Watch me take a Monster from "All the World's Monsters"... or a trap from "Traps Too!". Almost makes me want to find out if the Society for Creative Anachorisms still exists... make some armor out of wire (don't forget the leather undergarment or you WILL be sorry)...
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
United States
Seattle
Washington
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The closest thing to an open source fantasy RPG you are going to find is probably the several repackagings of older D&D edition as part of the "retro-gaming" movement. Labyrinth Lord is the old D&D Basic/Expert boxes sets, while the oddly named OSRIC is 1st edition AD&D. Both are available as free PDF downloads as well as printed copies that can be ordered on line.
FUDGE is a sorta open system, but is frankly more of a system design toolkit than a playable out of the box system. FATE is in my opinion the best FUDGE implementation out there. It can be found online at Evil Hat Games, in a 2.0 and 3.0 version. It's published for is the pulp adventure RPG Spirit of the Century, but the system would easily adapt to fantasy.
Frankly D&D4e would appeal to many eurogamers. It's closer to Descent on steroids than traditional D&D, with a central focus on tactical combat and and balanced to a fault. If you are disciplined, the three core books have all you need for tons of play (and you could even skip the DMG, although it has really good advice for running games). You'll be tempted by the pre-painted minis and growing list of splatbooks, but you don't need them.
Savage Worlds is an extremely affordable, highly flexible option. The Explorer's Edition is an astonishing 10 bucks. Combine with a setting book (or role your own) and you are ready to go. There is nothing hugely innovative about the system, but in practice it turns out to be smooth, simple, and adaptable. There is a light focus on tactical combat, but nothing like D&D4e. For setting books, I'd call out Shaintar: Immortal Legends as an extremely well done, hugely evocative high fantasy setting designed for SW.
Finally, I'll call out my own personal favorite, The Burning Wheel. It's not for everybody, as it requires players who are willing to step up and learn the system, as opposed to wanting to be told what dice to roll. I'd call it about the complexity of a heavy Euro. I like it because there is a really strong tie between the mechanical system and the driving of meaningful narrative choices and outcomes in the story. Plus, it is a ridiculously good value for what you get, and it does Tolkien better than any licensed Tolkien system out there.
So to sum up, if you are coming back to the roleplaying fold, you'll be spoiled for choice. Welcome back
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Eric Jome
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
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Man... do we ever need rpggeek.com.
Savage Worlds is the way for you to go. Or just keep your books and play what you got; good RP is in the players not the rules.
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Paolo Robino
Italy
Dueville
Vicenza
"I'm a Nay Saying worm beast!"
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Lots of good suggestions here. Let me add another: In a Wicked Age. Not a traditional system in any way, but good for low-prep sword & sorcery games. Here's a review.
Myself, I'd probably go with The Burning Wheel (or the new Mouse Guard RPG).
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Mike zebrowski
United States
Unspecified
Minnesota
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I've been a big role-playing nut since '82 (you do the math). Up until about 5 years ago, I purchased practically every RPG I could get my hands on. About 5 years ago, I started playing Savage Worlds and I haven't really been interested in any other RPG since then. I've tried many others since then, but after Savage Worlds, everything else seems too clunky, too simple, or too much work.
Mike Z
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Harald Korneliussen
Norway
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Thanks for all the good tips! I'm leaning towards just plain old D&D, or possibly the slightly streamlined version I found through Kent Reuber's link, Basic Fantasy RPG.
But I will keep my eyes open for players of Fate and Savage Worlds - if there are any around here I might give it a try. They look very nice.
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Jeff Yeackle
United States
San Luis Obispo
California
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As mentioned above, my favorite fantasy system is Warhammer Fantasy Role Play. It's simple and brutal and the included world is very gritty and rich with details.
If you want to go cheap, get the 1st ed. book since it contains a wealth of info and you won't need any other book. If you go 2nd ed. (which does improve some things somewhat), then you'll probably want to pick up some of the world books unless you wish to create your own and just use the system. The 2nd ed rule book is very light on world details.
In short: You have stats which are percentile or can be percentile. You roll against those to determine success. You can have skills as well which modify your character in different ways (stats boost, or ability to do something above and beyond what's normal, etc).
You use careers to represent advancement rather than abstract levels and constantly skyrocketing hit points. As you adventure you gain experience points which will allow you to increase stats and purchase skills providing you trained for them. Over time you may switch careers to better suit what your character is doing and allow them to advance in life in different ways. You might get a bit tougher, or maybe a few more hit points, but ultimately you're usually just as easy to kill off though (on the flip side, if you improve in combat you'll have better odds at surviving because you can dodge or parry better, not necessarily take more blows).
Combat is simple yet realistic. While some skills and such can alter things, ultimately you roll against your weapons or ballistics stat to see if you hit, and you reverse the die roll to see where you hit if you do hit. You then roll damage, subtract toughness and armor and apply the damage to the target. If you dip into the negatives, you don't die outright in many cases, but take critical hits (which can kill you or leave you bleeding and dying or without a hand, etc).
That's it in a nutshell.
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Jim Patching
United Kingdom
Cardiff
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My favourite fantasy setting is also Warhammer for many of the reasons stated above.
Having said that, probably the most fun I've had running a role-playing game was The Great Pendragon campaign for Pendragon 5th edition. Even though it was only published a few years ago it's a bit hard to find now and it is essentially only one campaign, but man what a campaign it is!
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Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
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rafial wrote:
Savage Worlds is an extremely affordable, highly flexible option. The Explorer's Edition is an astonishing 10 bucks. Combine with a setting book (or role your own) and you are ready to go. There is nothing hugely innovative about the system, but in practice it turns out to be smooth, simple, and adaptable. There is a light focus on tactical combat, but nothing like D&D4e. For setting books, I'd call out Shaintar: Immortal Legends as an extremely well done, hugely evocative high fantasy setting designed for SW.
I would go along with this recommendation. I haven't seen Shaintar but it seems to be appropriate, a lot of Savage settings are a mish-mash of elements from various places.
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Shannon McNair
United States
Beaverton
Oregon
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cosine wrote: Man... do we ever need rpggeek.com.
Hmm, apparently so does Aldie!
Check out: http://whois.domaintools.com/rpggeek.com
Whois Record
Registrant:
BoardGameGeek, LLC
7930 Xavier Ct
Dallas, Texas 75218
United States
Domain Name: RPGGEEK.COM
Created on: 16-Sep-03
Expires on: 16-Sep-09
Last Updated on: 17-Sep-08
Administrative Contact:
Alden, Scott
BoardGameGeek, LLC
...
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Jason Quintal
United States
Burlington
Massachusetts
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Definitely give savage worlds a try. I'm currently in two separate campaigns [one fantasy and one sci-fi buck rogers style]. And the system is very fluid. You can pretty much use the system for any genre - Western, Sci-Fi, Horror, Fantasy, etc. The game is not half as complex as D&D 3.5 AND it offers more legitimate role playing through character traits taken during creation.
Characters can be developed and play can commence all in one gaming session. I highly reccomend this system to anyone interested in trying something other than the WOTC D&D structure.
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Elstree
United States
Davis
California
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Typse2Fsat wrote: If you don't mind switching game system I can recommend GURPS, the Generic Universal RolePlaying System.
Man, I bought so much GURPS stuff but could never find anyone who wanted to play it. The GURPS: Time Travel supplement was one of the best RPG supplements for any game, ever.
rafial wrote: Frankly D&D4e would appeal to many eurogamers. It's closer to Descent on steroids than traditional D&D Wow, that comparison tells me all I need to know about 4e. I picked up Descent hoping it would scratch my RPG itch, and found that it utterly failed on that front. I enjoy it for what it is, but it does not feel like a dungeon crawl--it feels like a black ops infiltration. The fantasy theme, especially the way it treats magic, also falls far short of the mark. Any RPG that's closer to Descent is definitely not for me.
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Rami Finkelshtein
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
Just another day on the staircase
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I second GURPS in fact I am currently putting some finishing touches on a campaign that I'm going to run (bank robbers betrayed by one of their comrades and they go after him)
It lets you be as cinematic or serious dice rolling as you want. Honestly its not the simplest system (even though just about any rule can be removed to make it simpler) but it definitely is fun for RP'ing Your character is often dictated by his/her advantage and disadvantages. So people can usually pick exactly what they want to play when they make their character.
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