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Ben Smith
United States
California
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Hey everyone! So, I have a pretty simple question. Are illustrators usually hired by designers, or by publishers?
If a designer's goal is to get published by a major publisher, should the designer hire an artist in order to submit a nearly-complete prototype?
However, if the graphic design (by the designer) is solid, and the game looks good without illustrations, it seems like spending a thousand or two dollars would be folly.
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Pete Belli
United States
Florida
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Good luck with your prototype.
Quote: if the graphic design (by the designer) is solid, and the game looks good without illustrations, it seems like spending a thousand or two dollars would be folly.
You'll be lucky to earn "a thousand or two dollars" as a game designer... save your money.
A rough draft will be OK if the game is good.
Another option: check with the art department at a local school for students that might like to work on your game for class credit.
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Ben Smith
United States
California
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pete belli wrote: Another option: check with the art department at a local school for students that might like to work on your game for class credit.
Excellent idea! I never would have thought of that.
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Barry Doyle
United States
Lynchburg
Virginia
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Nah, just submit a solid design. I've actually playtested card games that were just B&W text. They'll work out the art details later if they like the game.
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Quote: If a designer's goal is to get published by a major publisher, should the designer hire an artist in order to submit a nearly-complete prototype?
Publishers will usually opt to be able to edit theme (including game art/aesthetics) if they feel it might be better marketed. Changing a WWII tactical game into a fantasy tactical game, you can bet most of the in-place art will be tossed.
Quote: However, if the graphic design (by the designer) is solid, and the game looks good without illustrations, it seems like spending a thousand or two dollars would be folly.
I've only ran into a few game designers that can pull off a good looking game aesthetic. If you can do it, then more power to you.
Also, if anyone is spending 1-2k on a prototype, then drop me a line cause I can do it for a tenth that price.
Quote: Another option: check with the art department at a local school for students that might like to work on your game for class credit.
While this option (or going to deviant art or using clip art) serves the game designer well it largely messes up the livelihood of professional illustrators/designers. It bottoms out the price value of our work. Would you want to create a board game complete with functional game mechanics for nothing but a credit? What do you do for the next prototype, keep farming out work? Building a relationship with an illustrator/designer will give you one less thing to worry about down the road.
simpson
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Nick Hayes
United States
Los Angeles
California
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gsimpson wrote: While this option (or going to deviant art or using clip art) serves the game designer well it largely messes up the livelihood of professional illustrators/designers. It bottoms out the price value of our work. Would you want to create a board game complete with functional game mechanics for nothing but a credit? What do you do for the next prototype, keep farming out work? Building a relationship with an illustrator/designer will give you one less thing to worry about down the road.
On the other hand, a lot of young artists without previous experience would jump at a chance to get published. However, because the art of a prototype is very prone to being replaced upon publication, you have to be up front with them about that. But I can guarantee that you can find these people who are dying to get their skill recognized. Just don't expect to get Boris Vallejo and RK Post.
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Quote: But I can guarantee that you can find these people who are dying to get their skill recognized. Just don't expect to get Boris Vallejo and RK Post.
True but skill getting recognized or publish means nothing if they don't get paid for it. That's what makes ours a profession - we get paid for our craft. When you subsidize our work replacing pay for the chance to get recognized, you devalue what we do.
I've done pro bono or reduced price for indie developers and it works well BUT its largely from the RELATIONSHIP I have with the game designer. I know full bleed operations and color gamuts and how to illustrate ideas so that the game designer doesn't have to. He can worry about his game.
But when game designers start tapping into an untrained talent pool most likely one or both parties will get burnt from the experience. You cannot expect professional work from someone looking to work for free. You can expect it from someone that works to pay for food/bills.
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Ben Smith
United States
California
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gsimpson wrote: While this option (or going to deviant art or using clip art) serves the game designer well it largely messes up the livelihood of professional illustrators/designers. It bottoms out the price value of our work. Would you want to create a board game complete with functional game mechanics for nothing but a credit? What do you do for the next prototype, keep farming out work? Building a relationship with an illustrator/designer will give you one less thing to worry about down the road.
simpson
I guess I have no idea how much artists charge for their work; I guessed in the thousands thinking ($40/hour)x(0.6 hr/picture)x(60 pictures) = $1440. Come to think of it, I have no idea how long it would take!
You make a good point. Asking people to work for publicity and experience, when the publicity is unlikely, and it won't necessarily lead to future work might be rude.
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Quote: I guess I have no idea how much artists charge for their work; I guessed in the thousands thinking ($40/hour)x(0.6 hr/picture)x(60 pictures) = $1440. Come to think of it, I have no idea how long it would take!
Most companies actually set the prices. Tier I companies (self-publishers) usually have a budget that affords $15-40 per illo. Tier II companies (small business) have a budget range of $50-$90 per illo. Tier III (Fantasy Flight and the like) have a budget of $100 per illo. Tier IV (publications/Magic) can afford $500 per illo.
Most agency/firm graphic designers/illustrators can charge $20-$30 per hour depending on position and experience. Lead artists, art directors, creative directors can fetch more depending on past brand work. If their work becomes popular, then they can charge more for name recognition. I shared a table with Randy Post years back at Gen Con signings and he was selling signed prints for $10 (pretty sure). Now after doing more high-profile gigs he could charge 4x that.
Since the service is the same, an illustrator can put forth the same effort in a $15 illo as a $100 illo. A bizarre value system that ebbs and flows with the market.
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United States
Saint Joseph
Michigan
I would do all the things I have ever dreamed of doing. I would love to become a professional whistler.I'm pretty amazing at it now, but I wanna get, like, even better. Make my living out of it.
Bffffttt, Pffffttt, Buuuuurtt........
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Should graphic designers, artists, etc get paid for their work? Absolutely.
But for prototypes, getting either clip art, or an art student (assuming one is willing to get some practice and something to put in their portfolio) is fine. In 95% of cases, the publisher will retheme the game or at the very least want to do the art in a style that fits in with their other products. So the prototype art is temporary, just to give the gist.
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2 things:
1: Don't expect artists to ever take a pay cut just because it's a game product. Artists are artists and unless they are partners on a project pay them the going rates. You get what you pay for.
2: Learn to draw. Seriously, if you are an independant game producer you already have the spatial talent and creativity to learn to illustrate and you can then TOTALLY bind game and theme. This allows you to discuss art direction with your other artists like an adult. It's also fun.
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