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sean johnson
United States
avon
Indiana
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My wife is my primary gaming partner, so when I am looking to get a game I always consider if it is a game that we can play together. For the most part my track record is really good at finding games that we both like. Occasionally, games that should have been a good match fall short and in the case of Cyclades, it was a complete flop.
I played Cyclades a couple of months ago and I absolutely LOVED it. I had what turned out to be faulty reasoning, for my wife might like it or at least find it playable. We played Cyclades a couple of times and it turns out that she HATED it. After the second play, she was done with the game. This review is not a rules explanation or an objective analysis of the game’s virtues and faults. This is a comparison of why I loved the game and why she hated it.
I loved The Conflict: I really like games with direct conflict. I really liked that conflict happens on multiple levels in this game. I like how even though there is no actual conflict the competition during the auction can really like conflict as player butt heads against each other. I also really like the combat system. I like that the 0-3 die is the only modifier to the number of units, so that the one with the majority has the advantage but it is not a done deal. I also liked the constant sniping. If someone was left to their own devices then the game would end in like 15 minutes. The game is all about players tripping each other up.
She hated The "Screwage": The down side to the direct conflict in this game, is that it can really mess people up. She found it really frustrating when someone was willing to go higher than her on the auction she really wanted to win. What she disliked the most was how high stakes the combat could be. She hated that if she built a metropolis, and had it defended with one unit someone could hire the Pegasus, fly in, and take over the metropolis that she had spent multiple turns building. She does not mind direct conflict in games, but apparently only in games when conflict is the point of the game. Since the way to win this game was build to metropolises, she really hated the constant meddling with her attempts at building.
I loved Multiple Strategies: One of the things I liked about this game is the openness of it. There are multiple ways that players can go about playing the game. I like how players have to decide during the auction phase how much money they were willing to spend and still be able to pull off all the other actions they wanted to do. However, if someone else wanted the favor of the same god or if the god that fit into a player’s strategy for that turn was not available, then players have to adapt on the fly. I really like that need for flexibility and how there are lots of different ways a player can use their money on a turn.
She hated Not Knowing What to Do: What I saw as dynamic flexibility in the game she saw as overwhelming confusing. With so many options she felt unsure how to best proceed, and she really disliked it when her plans did not come together and she had to figure something else out. Instead of finding that fun, she found it frustrating.
I loved The Game Being Scalable: I have played the game with every possible player combination and I thought it worked well with 2-5 players. While I personally liked it best with four, I thought the game works well with all number of players. I was surprised by how well the two player game worked. I thought the modification of letting the players bid on two roles worked well. I liked how having two roles opened up a lot of extra possibilities, and the addition of a third metropolis to the victory condition made the game length just right.
She hated The 2 player Game: While she did dislike it less with more, she really did not care for the two player game because she felt like I was always out to get her. With multiple players all of the interference was spread out, instead of two people focusing on winning while keeping the other person from doing so.
I loved The Combination of Euro and American Style Games: For me the best part of the game is that it took a very euro game auction mechanic and put in a plastic piece heavy game, with lots of random elements, and a slug fest that is all more comfortable in an American game. This combination was perfect for me and it really drew me into the game.
She hated The combination of Euro and American Style Games: My wife prefers euro games, but she has played and enjoyed a fair share of ameritrash. However the combination just did not work for her. If Cyclades was a euro auction game about building up a metropolis she would have loved it. If Cyclades was a conflict game about creating an island Empire through conquest, she (probably) would have had fun playing it. The combination of the two created something that she just could not get behind.
So Cyclades was a bust. This story has a happy ending though. I am going to be able to trade Cyclades for another game that I am excited about playing, and one that we will (hopefully) both enjoy.
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Cameron Chien
United States
Rancho Cucamonga
California
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Good review!
Cameron
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
United States
Corvallis
Oregon
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SeanXor wrote: So Cyclades was a bust. This story has a happy ending though. I am going to be able to trade Cyclades for another game that I am excited about playing, and one that we will (hopefully) both enjoy.
So what are you trading for?
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Jaime Lawrence
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
See Below.
Evil Bob: Lawful good since 2038!
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But the game is so good! Find a new wife, it's the only solution.
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Eric Dodd
New Zealand
Martinborough
Wairarapa
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Well argued review - good to see both sides at once. Thanks.
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Sean Boyll
United States
Kuna
Idaho
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Good review. I would like to see the outcome of you two playing Dungeon Lords.
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Joerg Schaefer
Germany
Frankfurt
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I haven't played Cyclades but I can fully understand your wife and your review just confirms my opinion not to play this one. The combination of Euro with Ameritrash doesn't work out. Give me either one in its pure form.
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JAMES CASTELLI
Australia
Hornsby
N.S.W
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Great review I really liked this format, it made for an interesting read, both sides of the story. I wasn't a fan of this game myself, i have only played it once and am a big fan of Cathala and Maublanc's other works. Infact this was a "buy before try" for me given the theme and designers, but it just so happened i had a chance to try it before i had a chance to buy it. I played with the Max number of players and myself and one other didn't enjoy it but the rest did.
Quote: She found it really frustrating when someone was willing to go higher than her on the auction she really wanted to win.
I felt the same, I found it very hard to ever get a chance to get the God i wanted/Needed/preferred.
Quote: She hated that if she built a metropolis, and had it defended with one unit someone could hire the Pegasus, fly in, and take over the metropolis that she had spent multiple turns building.
Again i felt the same, In my game i was frustrated at how far behind i was. I had not much of anything, Pegusus came out and i won. I've never been so disappointed to have won a game.
Again great review, I know this sounds bad, but i hope you play more games where you and your Mrs differ opinion  just so i can read more reviews like this. 
Thanks.
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Alex Martinez
United States
Irving
Texas
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Having played Cyclades a few times, I find it to be a fantastic game. I can get why someone who needs complete control would feel unhappy with it though. It's also not a game where you can just focus on one particular tactic and ignore the others.
Personally, I found the auction mechanic to be a great balancer. And while it's true you're competing for the favor of the gods, you're never really screwed over because every god gives you something worthwhile.
A great example for me was when I couldn't grab Ares for a few turns. Instead of getting frustrated, I decided to enjoy Poseidon's favor, build a nice fleet, destroy my opponent's ships, and grab valuable trade routes. It worked.
I find that if you focus on what you aren't accomplishing, you'll only be disappointed. But this is a game that rewards flexibility, planning, and with just enough luck to keep it interesting.
A great, great game.
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Fraser Grant
Scotland
Windsor
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Trade the game?
Trade the wife!
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Pawel Bulacz
Poland
Kraków
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jamesmckane wrote: ...Pegusus came out and i won. I've never been so disappointed to have won a game.
You played well. Don't be disappointed! If others let you take Pegasus then they play wrong... The best strategy is to take the first God, whatever he is... Those mythological creatures rocks! (with few temples)
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Geoff Hall
United Kingdom
Yate
Bristol
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Really nice review. I personally really enjoy the game but I appreciate the dissenting view point and I thought that the way that you presented the two sides was spot on.
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Eddy Richards
Scotland
Allanton
Berwickshire
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Excellent review, and very helpful! I'm in a similar position, with my wife as my main gaming partner. She would, I suspect, have a broadly similar reaction to yours. SO I am forced to downgrade this on my wishlist - definitely a 'try before you buy' game now.
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Petr Hofman
Czech Republic
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SPBTooL wrote: Good review. I would like to see the outcome of you two playing Dungeon Lords.
It's a difficult guess. Although the games seem completely different I think they have much in common (I'm just guessing since i played DL only).
Dungeon Lords have no direct conflict (since the lords don't attack each other), but players always affect others. With Agricola-like style of limited number of players doing one action or the strongest heroes attacking the most evil dungeon lord...
Don't know if I would call DL multiple strategy game, but you have quite decent bid of choices, have to guess what your opponents are going to do and plan your actions at least one move in advance.
And at last it's a combination of euro and american style game too. More of a euro game i guess, but it has some american flavor.
But i think she would like it. At least few first games, because commentaries are rally funny and it has some fresh ideas.
What I don't like on this game is counting point on the end to find out the winner. I like games where the winner is defined by some clearly stated condition.
I think Cyclades will be the game just for me (though I don't like the ancient theme so much).
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Jeremy Salinas
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
Drakkenstrike's Components Breakdown Video Review Series in HD
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My wife has the same opinion about the game. Doesn't matter though b/c it's AWESOME and I have plenty of people to play it with.
We need to hook up sometime so that you and your wife can meet more gamers in our area. You'd like our group of people that we play with here in Indy !!
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**MOSHIN' JOSH** [Here to have fun!]
Canada
Cambridge
Ontario
"Sometimes game rulebooks are meant to be used as a guide - not chiseled into stone tablets as scripture. If using a specific rule makes a game more fun for you, then it is not only your right - but it is your duty to change it." --Rob Bell
“My opinion is that a game has its own life when published, and is really alive when players want to add their own house rules!” --Bruno Cathala
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My last game of this was a 3-player game with myself, my wife, and a very experienced gamer. My wife slaughtered us.
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sean johnson
United States
avon
Indiana
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Sphere wrote:
So what are you trading for?
I am trading for Zombie State: Diplomacy of the Dead. Which is a perfect trade for me. I got Cyclades at Gen Con and I was really in between getting Cyclades or Zombie State. The fact that I had played a full game of Cyclades previously as opposed to observing a game/rules explanation is what pushed me to getting Cyclades. So basically for the price of shipping, I am getting the chance to reset my decision.
Drakkenstrike wrote: My wife has the same opinion about the game. Doesn't matter though b/c it's AWESOME and I have plenty of people to play it with.
We need to hook up sometime so that you and your wife can meet more gamers in our area. You'd like our group of people that we play with here in Indy !!
I agree! One of the reasons I was willing to trade the game so quickly is I know that
Adam Daulton
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
has it, and I try to make it to his game days as often as possible.
But we live on the same side of town so I would always be up for Cyclades  (or anything really)
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It's funny how people are. I love Cyclades for the very same reasons your wife hates it.
To me it's an exercise in creating order and controlling a completely dynamic and malignant environment.
And all the plastic minis didn't sway me one bit, nope not even a little
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msg
United States
Newbury
New Hampshire
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I love this game and it's seen quite a bit of play in my regular gaming group. Even though 2 guys out of the four of us already own it, I couldn't resist buying it this week.
UPS is delivering it today! I really, really, really hope that my sweetheart doesn't have the same reaction as your wife.
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Cole Busse
United States
Sun Prairie
Wisconsin
Green Archer needs food badly!
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My bias: I loved this game. My wife likes it. Well, she better I bought it for her...us, to play on a date night (right before we went as watch the Clash of the Titans remake). Anyways...
The people I have played it with that did not like it usually found issue with the low random nature of the game and still having it be almost 100% tactical. Because of the bidding you cannot really pick one strategy and run with it.
Just my 2 cents.
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Sarge in charge!
Germany
Bremen
Ash nazg durbatulûk
Speak "thriend" and enter!
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Hida Mann wrote: But the game is so good! Find a new wife, it's the only solution.
That possibility comes with the new expansion.
But, seriously - great comparitive review. I love to hear what people dislike about games, to see if their grudges against some mechanics or whatsoever equal mine. Or not at all. Thanks, Sean!
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Jeremy Salinas
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
Drakkenstrike's Components Breakdown Video Review Series in HD
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Phil and Sean, we might be gaming on Saturday or Sunday this week. Just a heads up. How old is your young one Sean? We have a 5 year old daughter.
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Jim Marshall
United Kingdom
York
North Yorkshire
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I've played this quite a few times now with 3, 4 and 5 players. It's definitely a game that divides opinion. About 2/3rds of the people I've introduced it to loved it, the remainder (many being players who prefer euros with minimal conflict rewarding an efficiency strategy) really didn't get into it at all. I see this division of opinion as a plus: I've played too many so-so eurogames in particular where I didn't hate it but wouldn't rush to play it again. Nothing at all against good euros, just played too many mediocre ones.
I think managing in chaos is the key to Cyclades. The players can't independently build little empires where the only conflict is resource competition - the set up virtually precludes that, the players' initial holdings are dispersed and vulnerable. You have to be able to spot an opportunity and go for it as it may not be there in a turn or two.
However, especially in the end game I think you need to have a plan as more often than not a player building or capturing a second metropolis without thinking how he can retain until the end of the turn will find himself caught out. Turn order here is important; going first allows you to clear out the mythological creatures for the turn, while going last (other than Apollo) means no-one else can stop you if you can put in place that second metropolis.
I have found that I know how I want to win the game a turn or two before the end, and if required will take Apollo for a couple of turns just to build up enough money to ensure I get the god I want when necessary. Hoping to get (say) Ares on a lucky break to win you the game without the others outbidding you if they can isn't likely to happen very often.
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Craig
United States
Goodlettsville
Tennessee
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Didn't I read a very similar account of the game Panzer Assault Russian Assault?
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