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Neil Carr
United States
Barre
Vermont
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This is something that I wonder about from time to time.
Islamic suicide bombers are brought into being because of a specific set of ideas, basically a mutated theology built out of Islam. I have to stress that Islam itself does not condone suicide bombings, but some theological arguments have been built up over time that end up imparting these meme into people who then unfortunately let it take them over.
So what I wonder is when people think this kind of "mutation" will occur within a Christian theological structure? I'm not looking at this in terms of how it could be argued that someone calling themselves a Christian would end up justifying the validity of suicide bombings, or trying to bring about the rapture. It's not the theological justification that matters, instead I'm just wondering how long it will take for the right mix of social and economic conditions to come about where people will make "genetic leap" in the end times meme to one where people believe that they need to bring about the end of the world.
Just hearing about May 21st, Rapture Pet Insurance, etc. If people are tossing out all of their savings and eagerly looking forward to not being here on the 22nd, there isn't much of a cognitive buffer left for them to just leap to inducing the end times in society. They are already halfway inducing it in themselves.
Perhaps it takes more of a technical leap. On thing that bubbles up is the movie 12 Monkeys and its notion of one crazy guy making a super bug to bring about the end of the world. It might not still (maybe) be feasible right now, but as the decades advance and genetic engineering keeps making strides it ought to become more and more plausible. In thirty years how hard will it be for a crazy sect to make ans spread a nasty super virus?
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I wonder if we could get North Korea to switch places with Israel?
EDIT: that was really dumb they are not even close in size.
I just want to get all the batshit-crazy together in one spot.
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Wade Nelson
United States
Saint Louis Park
Minnesota
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The world is full of morons. Everywhere you go, there are morons. Some of them grab onto religion, some grab onto politics, some actually do useful things.
The thing is, usually intelligent people prevail. There have always been morons, but over the past 2000 years humanity has progressed by leaps and bounds both morally and technologically.
The reason it seems like the world is filling up with morons is because "news" agencies are more interested in sponsorships and ratings than actual news. Take, for example, that crackpot in Florida who decided to have a good old-fashioned book burning. He should be ignored. He had a small congregation of morons, and he himself was also a moron. Morons shouldn't get to be on the news. If we had all just ignored that moron, like we should have, he would have no influence. Because we put him in the spotlight and made his moron actions and opinions "news", Afghani protesters killed nearly two-dozen people in response.
Ignore the morons. Focus the progress we've made, and keep making. Morons don't like to be ignored, so they'll kick and scream louder, but at the end of the day they're still morons. Then you'll rest easier.
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Neil Carr
United States
Barre
Vermont
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One problem though is that technologically and socially there has been a consistent shift towards personal empowerment over history.
Today an individual has the internet at their disposal to learn how to make a WMD, and likewise the resources to create it. Society is creating guards against this, but they are normally reactive, only locking something down after it has caused a problem.
As technology advances it's going to become easier and easier for people to make WMDs, and at some point we're going to have someone making and implementing a weapon that delivers on a mass scale.
So even if the ratio of the rational versus the crazy remains the same, eventually the crazy is going to be able to do something completely out of scale with their ratio in the world's population.
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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Fermi's paradox, asking why we see no Aliens if life is so prevalent, has one possible reason that no civilisation can pass a certain Technological level without destroying itself.
There are numerous reasons why this may happen but one that sticks out is Technological Singularity. This is where computer AI exceeds that of Humans and becomes self sufficient and, by definition, something we can't control. They may decide they have no use for Humans or have no reason to keep us alive by providing food and medicine. They do not even have to be self aware to achieve this.
While this seems to be pure Science Fiction it is not inconsistent with the current understanding of how AI will develop and even now Scientists are trying to figure out how to deal with it and identify when it happens.
EDIT: Also many people who believe in cranky ideas are not always morons (although some followers may be) Cognitive Dissonance seems to be programmed into our genes as a good survival strategy. Unfortunately this clashes badly with out concious intellect. Most people of any Religion or belief can reconcile this and understand it. But the real crankies see no reason to, they seem to revel in 'seeing the light' and seeing the rest of us as 'stupid and blind'
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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bjlillo wrote: Ahmadinejad is a big fan of the 12th Imam. He's actually spent money preparing for his arrival. IIRC, he even ends his speeches with a prayer to hasten his coming.
Yes and he blames the US for trying to delay his coming. With people like that in power the world suddenly becomes a lot more dangerous.
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Brian Leet
United States
Montpelier
Vermont
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I'm not clear on whether you are asking about at what point someone with a sociopathic streak will be influenced by Christianity to terrorism (which I suspect you could already find examples of). Or whether you are asking about the notion that all religions will ultimately produce this as a social phenomenon among their followers (in which case I don't buy the premise). Or something else.
In any case, if you google you can probably find articles from around two years ago or so about how there are evangelical Christians who don't have an inherent concern with conflict in the middle east nor a desire to foster peace there, because they think it is part of the path towards Revelations, etc. I never could quite wrap my head around a Christians for Islamo-Jewish war movement, but I believe I did read some articles that implied it exists.
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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It can be any belief system or dogma that can do this although Relegion is by far the most pervasive. The reason why the overt anti western, self styled Imans in the UK were not shut down for years was due to political correctness. This was despite them openly calling for the murder of others. If it was a white hate group they would have been closed down in weeks not several years. You then have the Anti Israel and the Anti Muslim crowd who are blind to anything that does not support their view and excuse the most terrible atrocities on their side. So this is already happening, nothing new there. It is just a matter of time before it affects us all. Al Queda was successful as it pulled together these groups with their own memes. There is no reason why this can't happen again to the point it threatens us all on a big scale.
Rational thought and logic is thrown away when it comes to any belief system, which is why I resent belief systems so much, no matter how harmless they appear, as they can destroy a whole communities ability to think and act rationally.
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Willard!
United States
Columbus
Ohio
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The meme goes hot on May 21st around 9pm Eastern Time. I hope you get a zinger in there for a whole lot of thumbs! 
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Señor Vanilla
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
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Rationally, if you value ending human suffering above all else, then the surest way to prevent all human suffering is ....
Its not only religions that can come up with crazy. Ethics and ideologies can do it very well too. cf Catch 22, Stalinism, Maoism, Nazism, MAD, Pol Pot,
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Jack Smith
United Kingdom
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Pinook wrote: Rationally, if you value ending human suffering above all else, then the surest way to prevent all human suffering is ....
Its not only religions that can come up with crazy. Ethics and ideologies can do it very well too. cf Catch 22, Stalinism, Maoism, Nazism, MAD, Pol Pot,
Yes absolutely. In fact I'm not convinced if Religion was removed there would not simply be something else to fill it's place. As I said earlier I think Political Correctness has a lot to answer for. It has caused a lot of social breakdown in the UK and resentment within certain groups. It tries to crush free thought. In fact it's less tolerant than most mainstream Religions. I think as a meme is has been highly successful and has easily filled the gaps where Religion no longer exists as UK is such a secular society now.
I tend to take the Athiest stance on these boards as it is Religious discussion that pops up. But I am against all intolerant belief systems whatever they are. I'd much rather live in a Christian or Muslim state that a Communist or Fascist one.
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Kamma
United States
Stuart
Florida
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Halfinger wrote: Fermi's paradox, asking why we see no Aliens if life is so prevalent, has one possible reason that no civilisation can pass a certain Technological level without destroying itself.
There are numerous reasons why this may happen but one that sticks out is Technological Singularity. This is where computer AI exceeds that of Humans and becomes self sufficient and, by definition, something we can't control. They may decide they have no use for Humans or have no reason to keep us alive by providing food and medicine. They do not even have to be self aware to achieve this.
While this seems to be pure Science Fiction it is not inconsistent with the current understanding of how AI will develop and even now Scientists are trying to figure out how to deal with it and identify when it happens.
EDIT: Also many people who believe in cranky ideas are not always morons (although some followers may be) Cognitive Dissonance seems to be programmed into our genes as a good survival strategy. Unfortunately this clashes badly with out concious intellect. Most people of any Religion or belief can reconcile this and understand it. But the real crankies see no reason to, they seem to revel in 'seeing the light' and seeing the rest of us as 'stupid and blind'
Fermi's paradox may not be right, just read the novel "Vril the Power of the Coming Race' and you'll see what i mean
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