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Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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There will be those that disagree, but I'm going to throw my opinion out there. I feel that the game can be played in a way that each race does okay, but Zerg requires a lot more from its players than the other races.
First of all, the creep mechanic seems cool, but it's unbelievably annoying and limiting compared to the other 2 races. The toss require a pylon, but that's not hard and it helps their supply anyway. The terran can build anywhere. You can't just hide and surprise enemies such as warping in units from a far pylon or hiding a factory which pumps out hellions.
Secondly, I find that larva are absolutely irritating. Terran and toss? Just click on a marine/zealot 5 times and do something else. Zerg? We have to visually wait for larvae to spawn, or use the queen spray. Imagine if the zerg could press zergling 5 times and the game would build a zergling as soon as a larvae was available.
Thirdly, building with drones just makes it another hardship that the terran and toss players do without. I lose a drone, forcing me to make another, which then clogs up my larvae availability, which is also tied to making fighters. Terran? Build and wait until the building is done, move on. Protoss? Warp and walk away. The zerg again have to work a lot more to get the same results.
Fourthly, the units themselves. The zergling is fast, at a high dps, but it doesn't matter if the enemies are walled in. They die incredibly fast, making engagements almost impossible. A critical mass of units is incredibly amazing for ranged units like the marine or stalker. The roach suffers from poor range and the hydralisk, from poor speed.
I want to talk about air. The mutalisk is a great unit, but against the protoss, you have a counter the phoenix that not only is faster, but can attack while moving. The corruptor lacks the damage and speed to counter the phoenix. Speaking of anti air, the phoenix is an amazing unit that is fast, scouts well and has an extremely useful ability. The corruptor can morph into a brood lord, but it's speed is poor, the damage it does is poor and the ability it has is limited to specific situations. The viking actually does more damage than the corruptor and it has an extremely long range to boot. It can also transform which is also more useful than corruption.
I've played about 20 games or so of toss after 500+ with zerg. All I can is WOW. This is so much easier. I just upgrade my gateways to warpgates and BAM I can spawn 5 dark templars within 5 seconds to wreak havoc at will. I don't understand how warping in should be faster than manually training, but if I'm toss, I don't care. The phoenix? WOW is that amazing. I just make a pack of them, fly over an enemy expansion and pick up and slaughter workers so quickly. Heck, they are even better at harassing than mutalisks I would say because the units they pick up cannot run. Any anti air? As long as you have more phoenixes you can pick them up and they can't fire.
Oh did I mention the photon cannons that make defending your base so much easier? One cannon and you've got air, ground and detection all in one.
So to sum it up, I just find zerg has to do an insane amount of more work to meet the level that the toss do at least. Terran... I'm not so sure of because I do not play them that much, but toss... just streamlines so many things that its rather easy to play with them.
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David Jackman
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
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Revelade wrote:
First of all, the creep mechanic seems cool, but it's unbelievably annoying and limiting compared to the other 2 races. The toss require a pylon, but that's not hard and it helps their supply anyway. The terran can build anywhere. You can't just hide and surprise enemies such as warping in units from a far pylon or hiding a factory which pumps out hellions.
Well, the difference is that pylons dont actually do anything beneficial for 'toss - creep increases all zerg movement speed by 30%, queens and spine crawlers by 150%, hydralisks by 50%, and prevents enemy buildings from being created.
In addition, creep tumors can very quickly provide much greater sight of the map than anything else in the game, period.
If it wasnt harder to manage, it would be horribly broken.
Revelade wrote:
Secondly, I find that larva are absolutely irritating. Terran and toss? Just click on a marine/zealot 5 times and do something else. Zerg? We have to visually wait for larvae to spawn, or use the queen spray. Imagine if the zerg could press zergling 5 times and the game would build a zergling as soon as a larvae was available.
You dont need to visually wait, with hotkeys building units as zerg is relatively easier than the other races, since there is only one production building. You dont need to remember to hit 5 if you want a marine, 6 if you want a siege tank, 7 if you want to build a battlecruiser, etc.
The key thing here is that larvae spawn every 7 seconds. That is fast. Every 7 seconds one of your hatcheries sits at max larvae, you just lost a unit. This can be a pain in the butt until you get good hotkey discipline.
Revelade wrote:
Thirdly, building with drones just makes it another hardship that the terran and toss players do without. I lose a drone, forcing me to make another, which then clogs up my larvae availability, which is also tied to making fighters. Terran? Build and wait until the building is done, move on. Protoss? Warp and walk away. The zerg again have to work a lot more to get the same results.
This is an impediment that zerg needs to have. even considering that every building costs one drone, zerg can create workers WAY faster than any other race.
Revelade wrote:
Fourthly, the units themselves. The zergling is fast, at a high dps, but it doesn't matter if the enemies are walled in. They die incredibly fast, making engagements almost impossible. A critical mass of units is incredibly amazing for ranged units like the marine or stalker. The roach suffers from poor range and the hydralisk, from poor speed.
Well, you are right, zerglings wont do much versus a turtled player. But if they turtle, you've won the game. Expand with impunity.
Revelade wrote:
I want to talk about air. The mutalisk is a great unit, but against the protoss, you have a counter the phoenix that not only is faster, but can attack while moving. The corruptor lacks the damage and speed to counter the phoenix. Speaking of anti air, the phoenix is an amazing unit that is fast, scouts well and has an extremely useful ability. The corruptor can morph into a brood lord, but it's speed is poor, the damage it does is poor and the ability it has is limited to specific situations. The viking actually does more damage than the corruptor and it has an extremely long range to boot. It can also transform which is also more useful than corruption.
This kind of comes back to larvae, i think - like most zerg units, the muta is, from a stats perspective, worse than most of its counterparts. However, as a zerg player, you dont need to build 2 spires to get lots of mutas - you need 1. A terran player will, in many situations, need more than one starport to deal with heavy muta harass.
This allows zerg lots of flexibility with its composition - if he goes heavy viking, it is really easy for you to switch to another unit - like hydra or zergling. Those vikings suck if they dont have any air units to kill - they will get ahnillated by lings or any zerg ground unit.
Revelade wrote:
I've played about 20 games or so of toss after 500+ with zerg. All I can is WOW. This is so much easier. I just upgrade my gateways to warpgates and BAM I can spawn 5 dark templars within 5 seconds to wreak havoc at will. I don't understand how warping in should be faster than manually training, but if I'm toss, I don't care. The phoenix? WOW is that amazing. I just make a pack of them, fly over an enemy expansion and pick up and slaughter workers so quickly. Heck, they are even better at harassing than mutalisks I would say because the units they pick up cannot run. Any anti air? As long as you have more phoenixes you can pick them up and they can't fire.
Oh did I mention the photon cannons that make defending your base so much easier? One cannon and you've got air, ground and detection all in one.
So to sum it up, I just find zerg has to do an insane amount of more work to meet the level that the toss do at least. Terran... I'm not so sure of because I do not play them that much, but toss... just streamlines so many things that its rather easy to play with them.
Im not disagreeing with you, even though it might sound as such - zerg is much harder to play. They arent a worse race, they just play so differently than the other two races it is hard to compare. It is a race that relies solely on scouting and reaction.
Playing zerg correctly is all about a single question, when it comes down to it: "Do i build drones, or do I build an army?" If you answer this question right, you will win a lot of games.
My main beef with zerg is larvae spray - much harder to micro than chrono boost or MULE, and is rather unforgiving if you forget to do it, as it cannot be spammed.
As a terran player, My best matchup is TvP and my worst is TvZ. I probably need to work on my bunker rush. :P
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Aaron Tubb
United States
Fuquay Varina
North Carolina
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I like Zerg because they use only one production building, which makes it easier for me to control unit production with them. Hotkeys for unit production are much easier with Zerg than the other two. Did I forget to queue up a worker? That's OK, because that larva is sitting there and I can spawn multiple workers at once.
Spitting larva is annoying, but I hate the "macro mechanics" for all three races. They just feel like extra work that you have to remember throughout the game. They aren't interesting once you get used to them, and they don't present you with tactical or strategic decisions; you just have to remember to do them over and over again throughout the game or you will fall behind opponents who do.
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Brian Lee
United States
Northridge
California
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Quote:
If it wasnt harder to manage, it would be horribly broken.
"argumentum ad ignorantiam" I wasn't suggesting any particular idea to add to this, but it is not valid to declare an unseen change immediately as broken. (it could be, but it is not certain)
What I meant by visually wait was that you have to essentially wait for larvae to be there when you need to build. You can't just press the zealot key 5 times, relax because it's doing it for you and just come back at a later point. The zerg production cycle is "do everything in one go", So it doesn't matter if the larva production rate is fast if you have to keep going back to it when a larvae is available rather than again just pressing the zealot button 5 times and be on your way elsewhere.
Quote: This is an impediment that zerg needs to have. even considering that every building costs one drone, zerg can create workers WAY faster than any other race.
Again, "argumentum ad ignorantiam", just because it is the way it is does not mean changing it would necessarily break the game. And I wouldn't make such a hasty statement: you can chronoboost probes, drop mules which mine at I believe a rate 4 times of a normal worker.
I do find terran players have to work a good bit as well, but at least when you compare zerg to protoss, the zerg have many more things to manage more and it's not fun.
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Fabian Trunz
Switzerland
Degersheim
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Other races queue up to make up for bad macro. If you're a Zerg, just build a macro hatch or two and you will always have some extra larvae lying around. Having 17 larvae on each of 4 hatcheries in the end game and a 200/200 army is a huge advantage over your opponent. They won't be able to keep up with your reinforcements. There's always a flipside.
Edit: I played Protoss at first, and now find Zerg to be easier. I think it's more of a "different strokes" thing. Some things are harder, some easier, it really depends on the player.
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ackmondual
United States
Virginia
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FWIW, you're gonna need more Hatch's for exp, and now you got more buildings to generate units.
And yeah, I too REALLY hate having to remember to use the Queen's Spawn Larva ability, but I have issues with P having to spread out Pylons for more places to warp buildings, and how with T you need to manually repari units and buildings. If you don't repair with T, units can die way too quikly (like Medivacs). OTOH... supply blocked? Build 6 OLs just like that 
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