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Jason
United States Reno Nevada
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I haven't played either game. I just want a space game that I will want to play over and over again and never feels the same twice.
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Cole Wehrle
United States Austin Texas
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You're going to get a biased response because you are posting this in the Eclipse forum, but for what it's worth Eclipse is the better and more rewarding game.
I've played at least 35 games of TI3 and a probably 10-15 of TI2 and ultimately that game boils down to some very silly positioning. Eclipse is a more engrossing game and one worth thinking about.
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Scott Lewis
United States Castle Rock Colorado
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
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Well, even here you'll get some other side responses.
I enjoy both games. I find TI3 to be far deeper, richer, and more engaging, but it also comes at a "cost" of much more time commitment. I've talked about TI3 games months later. I haven't played any games of Eclipse that leave an epic "imprint" on me that I talk about even days later, much less months.
But it's all going to boil down to personal preference; what makes me enjoy TI3 more than Eclipse are going to be the same things that people dislike TI3 and favor Eclipse for. If you have the chance to try both, that's probably the best.
If you can get both, do so They both have their pros and cons, and despite what some say, I don't think one replaces the other - they bring different experiences and gameplay to the table.
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charlie reif
United States
California
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If nothing else it should be about how much time you and your game group want to spend on a single play.
TI3 takes a long time... 8 hours to 12 hours. (unless you have a super group of players with no AP) Eclipse will take about 5 hours the first time you play as your learning the rules, and under 4 hours once you know them. I can say that I am able to find more people willing to play Eclipse just because of game time needed.
I would recommend Eclipse... unless you have a group of gamers that can/will invest a whole day to play one game.
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vincit omnia amentia
United States Howard County Maryland
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Eclipse to me is a very streamlined, simple, and easy-to-use economic/exploration mechanism that can produce some of the coolest "space fights" I've seen. The reason for this is that while everybody has the same three ship types (basically), they can be upgraded in a variety of ways. Due to the availability of different technologies, or the lack of certain ones in some games, because of the random draw.
You can have a game (like our last one) where the player who won never got an upgraded weapon and had to rely on swarms of armored ships with laser precision. The player in second had very powerful ships that were higher risk (needed 6's to hit) but would kill any other ship on the map in one hit; nobody wanted to roll against those odds!
That being said, it misses a lot about what makes an epic game truly "epic" like diplomacy or the galactic council of Twilight Imperium (which was a really cool feature), it doesn't have a "true" tech tree (which I like, but some don't), and it has a defined turn limit and a "count your victory points" win condition (as opposed to achieving pre-defined objectives). All these aspects are fine with me, though.
That "fairness" being said and done, I could not stand TI3 even though I love the idea of it so much, a big epic space opera. Instead it was a lot of worrying about minutiae, should I spend my influence on this or that, how much have I already spent, how many activation tokens do I have, how big is my fleet capacity, and the biggest stick in my craw was the "Puerto Rico Action Selection Mechanic" which I hate." If I want to move, I will move on my turn.
And that's where all that simplicity in Eclipse won me over. I can immediately see the resources I have, how many I will have next turn, I have no size or move limits on my fleet, and I don't really worry about the economic side other than "colonize everything all the time unless you're running out of money" a system I can wrap my brain around (it's a little more complicated, and you can play some games with that side, too)!
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Cole Wehrle
United States Austin Texas
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charlier64 wrote: If nothing else it should be about how much time you and your game group want to spend on a single play.
TI3 takes a long time... 8 hours to 12 hours. (unless you have a super group of players with no AP) Eclipse will take about 5 hours the first time you play as your learning the rules, and under 4 hours once you know them. I can say that I am able to find more people willing to play Eclipse just because of game time needed.
I would recommend Eclipse... unless you have a group of gamers that can/will invest a whole day to play one game.
I should also add that Eclipse scales better. (Granted, there are some cool TI variants for 2 and 3 players that make things interesting).
Scott Lewis wrote: Well, even here you'll get some other side responses.
I enjoy both games. I find TI3 to be far deeper, richer, and more engaging, but it also comes at a "cost" of much more time commitment. I've talked about TI3 games months later. I haven't played any games of Eclipse that leave an epic "imprint" on me that I talk about even days later, much less months.
I can't very well comment on an "imprint" and, indeed, I have many games of TI3 that I remember fondly, but despite those memories the game is simply broken/uninteresting out of the box (including expansions). Now there are good variant sets to be found and I'd be happy to suggest several but know that if you purchase TI you are going to have to do a lot of work to tailor a game that suits your wants (Note: This is not the way to foster a good community of players and TIs is about as fragmented as any game's). Some might even say this is one of TI's strengths; the game is so amorphous that something can be designed for a whole array of groups. But, even when I select my favorite variants, I'd say my ideal game of TI:3 is only narrowly deeper or more interesting than Eclipse, and frankly, for all that work, I can think of a host of other much deeper and interesting games to scratch that itch.
Eclipse cannot be all things to all people, but it's an excellent resource management space civ builder with a slick set of rules. Of course, you need to be true towards your interests. If you want something more combat oriented you better grab Space Empires 4x. If you want to see a bunch of dreams half-realized, TI is your game.
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Jason
United States Reno Nevada
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BagpipeDan wrote: Eclipse to me is a very streamlined, simple, and easy-to-use economic/exploration mechanism that can produce some of the coolest "space fights" I've seen. The reason for this is that while everybody has the same three ship types (basically), they can be upgraded in a variety of ways. Due to the availability of different technologies, or the lack of certain ones in some games, because of the random draw.
You can have a game (like our last one) where the player who won never got an upgraded weapon and had to rely on swarms of armored ships with laser precision. The player in second had very powerful ships that were higher risk (needed 6's to hit) but would kill any other ship on the map in one hit; nobody wanted to roll against those odds!
That being said, it misses a lot about what makes an epic game truly "epic" like diplomacy or the galactic council of Twilight Imperium (which was a really cool feature), it doesn't have a "true" tech tree (which I like, but some don't), and it has a defined turn limit and a "count your victory points" win condition (as opposed to achieving pre-defined objectives). All these aspects are fine with me, though.
That "fairness" being said and done, I could not stand TI3 even though I love the idea of it so much, a big epic space opera. Instead it was a lot of worrying about minutiae, should I spend my influence on this or that, how much have I already spent, how many activation tokens do I have, how big is my fleet capacity, and the biggest stick in my craw was the "Puerto Rico Action Selection Mechanic" which I hate." If I want to move, I will move on my turn.
And that's where all that simplicity in Eclipse won me over. I can immediately see the resources I have, how many I will have next turn, I have no size or move limits on my fleet, and I don't really worry about the economic side other than "colonize everything all the time unless you're running out of money" a system I can wrap my brain around (it's a little more complicated, and you can play some games with that side, too)!
Thanks for all of the responses so far everyone. This post in particular has me leaning towards Twilight Imperium. Most of the reasons that he said made him dislike TI, are reasons I would prefer it to what sounds like simplicity of Eclipse.
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Antti Autio
Finland Helsinki
Gina, Escher gang leader (Necromunda). Don't mess with her or she'll kick your ass.. actually, she's gonna do it anyway!
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I'm obviously biased, but I can't stand TI3 while Eclipse is one of favourite games. My main issues with TI boil down to the arbitrary nature of the game and tedious fiddly mechanics. The game is playing you, not the other way around, and adding insult to injury, it has a ridiculous amount of "take that" randomness for such a preposterously long game.
Eclipse plays fast, makes sense, puts you in control of your strategy and packs a whole lot more meaningful decisions in 1/3 of the play time of TI. I even prefer the visuals in Eclipse over those in TI, but this is totally a matter of personal taste and I suspect I'm in the minority with that aspect.
I can certainly see the attraction in TI and many people simply love it. However, personally I find it a waste of time and never want to play it again.
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Purple Paladin
California
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Simply play the Vassal "demo" of Eclipse with someone. You can read the rules too before hand of course. At least you'll know what one game plays like before picking.
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Adrian Pop
Romania Cluj-Napoca Cluj
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Eclipse is definitely more streamlined and more elegant than TI3.
But when talking about replayability, TI3 clearly out weights Eclipse.
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Allan Clements
Norway Oslo
Turns out Esseb did touch the flag. Don't tell him I said so though.
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Eclipse is very streamlined and a lot simpler to play than TI3, but TI3 has much more to it, if you have time to play it. I still love TI3 and will play it when I have the time but because of its length, Eclipse will see play a lot more often than TI3 unless you have regular 6 hour gaming sessions.
TI3 can get quite a lot shorter if you do manage to play it a lot though
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Darrell Hanning
United States Jacksonville Florida
Love women in action movies and shows. It all started with Diana Rigg, in the Avengers.
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Read the reviews for each game, here on BGG - all of them - instead of trying to buy by city hall proxy. They'll tell you far more than what you'll read in this thread.
Personally, I also operated under the mistaken assumption that TI3 would be a fantastic, "epic" game, because it's so "meaty".
Unfortunately, it proved to be mostly gristle.
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Daniel Hammond
United States League City Texas
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I own and like both games. Last time I played TI3 was 2 years ago. I have played 25 games of Eclipse since January.
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Scott Lewis
United States Castle Rock Colorado
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
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Cole Wehrle wrote: but despite those memories the game is simply broken/uninteresting out of the box (including expansions). Personally, I couldn't disagree more. While I know there are aspects that people don't like, I found the RAW game perfectly fun and playable out of the box, both before expansions and after.
I just played a rules-as-written game a few weeks ago, and it was one of the most fun games I've had in a long time (since my regular group insists on slews of house rules that just add complication and no extra "enjoyment").
But again, it's all personal preference. Like some of the above, I certainly have played Eclipse more since I got it than TI3, mostly because I can play it in an evening as opposed to an all day event. But given the choice (and if time weren't a factor), I'd pick TI3 without question because it does more for me, personally. That's not to say Eclipse isn't good, because it is, but for me, it's just not nearly AS good.
But here on the Eclipse forums, I suspect that mentality will be in the minority.
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Forrest Ryan
United States Boulder Colorado
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They're both fun games. I know it has been said, but really it comes down to play time.
I'll almost NEVER have enough time to play TI3, but Eclipse can hit the table every time we get together.
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Jefferson Krogh
United States San Leandro California
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I wouldn't say no to a long day of TI3 with some good friends, if they asked nicely and the chairs were comfortable and there was good food.
But I'm nearly obsessed with Eclipse.
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Peter O
United States San Francisco California
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Tretiak wrote: Eclipse is definitely more streamlined and more elegant than TI3.
But when talking about replayability, TI3 clearly out weights Eclipse.
I think Eclipse has great replayability. It's always a different board with different techs coming up and even if you played the same exact set-up every time there would be plenty of exploration of different ways to take advantage of that setup. It's not exactly a "solvable" game. (Which is NOT to say that you can't get better, just that your opponents' decisions make no single path to victory always correct). More (or less) chrome doesn't make a game more or less replayable. Providing a wide diversity of gamestates does.
Plus Eclipse gives you the opportunity to get more games in. It doesn't matter if a game is more replayable than another if you barely get a chance to play it.
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Scott Lewis
United States Castle Rock Colorado
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
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tranenturm wrote: More (or less) chrome doesn't make a game more or less replayable. Providing a wide diversity of gamestates does. Only if those gamestates are significantly different. I haven't played Eclipse quite enough to know if that's the case. But in almost 6 years of playing TI3, I'm not even close to tired of it (whereas with Eclipse, I still like it, but it's not my go-to game like it was the first couple weeks).
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Harvie Jarriell
United States Unspecified Unspecified
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While both are great games, I like Eclipse a little better.
If you can get a group of 3 or more people for 6+ hours, I would say get TI3. It's a fantastic game with a mind boggling amount of options.
Eclipse is playable with two people in about 1.5 hours. Keep in mind the listed 30 minutes per player is really more like 45 minutes per player though.
Get them both. 
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Jeff Chamberlain
United States Tracy California
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My view will be just as biased as all the others. I own both games, and like them both. Though I do like Eclipse better. I also feel TI3, while fun, has far too much going on that doesn't really matter to the end game.
my only warning to the OP is: don't assume TI3 is going to be a grand epic experience just because a few people say it is. To some, I'm sure that is the way TI3 plays, but that isn't the way it plays to me. TI3 certainly wants to be a grand epic, but to many who play it, that isn't the feeling they walk away with. My sense of TI3 is that its mechanics actually discourage conflict. I've never seen a game in which heavy conflict occurred in a TI3 game in which the players who engaged in that conflict didn't lose to the player who stayed out of it, if that other player knew what he was doing. Only exception to that is when there is an end-game rush for the center tile in TI3. But that is just players fighting over the spot that has some good end game VP and not a really fleet-to-fleet aggression of one player's territory on another one.
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Peter O
United States San Francisco California
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sigmazero13 wrote: tranenturm wrote: More (or less) chrome doesn't make a game more or less replayable. Providing a wide diversity of gamestates does. Only if those gamestates are significantly different. I haven't played Eclipse quite enough to know if that's the case. But in almost 6 years of playing TI3, I'm not even close to tired of it (whereas with Eclipse, I still like it, but it's not my go-to game like it was the first couple weeks).
If your TI3 play numbers are correct (they may not be) you've played 18 games of TI3 in 6 years. That would TOTALLY keep me wanting more from a good game. I love Diplomacy but can never get enough games in (due to length and my preference for FtF over online). I think playing most any game every week weakens its appeal.
I'm not dissing TI3 here. I'm just saying I find Eclipse to have great replayability. Diplomacy has great replayability (50 years and counting) and has almost no chrome, the same exact board, abilities, and starting positions. Eclipse provides a platform for good diplomacy on top of different boards, powers, and so forth which in my books spells good replayability and it's relatively short time frame means I could actually play it until I get tired of it. Versus an all-day game which because I get so few chances to play those means I will never have the chance to tire of it. Which is better? (I don't know)
(This is all subjective of course)
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Scott Lewis
United States Castle Rock Colorado
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
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tranenturm wrote: If your TI3 play numbers are correct (they may not be) you've played 18 games of TI3 in 6 years.
Alas, they aren't even close. I'm not very consistent with recording my games on BGG, which actually makes me wonder if I should just remove them as if they aren't accurate they have no meaning 
I don't know an exact number, but if I were to guess I'd put it above 50 games, and that may be a conservative guess.
I've definitely played more TI3 than Eclipse, though.
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Jason
United States Reno Nevada
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Thanks for the responses so far everyone. I may just wait on both of these games, as there seems to not really be a clear choice. I've watched some of the video reviews for both games, and they are not assisting me in determining which game to get.
I have a long wishlist right now, so it may be better to wait on both of these games.
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Jefferson Krogh
United States San Leandro California
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Eclipse is very hard to find right now, anyway. Might as well wait and gather more information!
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Michael Riewe
Germany Ludwigshafen Unspecified
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Short answer:
If you like long games that are a stage for politics and subterfuge and you have a group of 4-5 friends that enjoys both, then go for TI3.
If you like a fast paced space combat & economy game that plays well with 2-6 players then go for Eclipse.
For me Eclipse is a much better game because I think that some of the mechanics of TI3 are clunky and that it takes much too long for what it offers. For this sort of game I prefer Diplomacy.
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